Lightning protection?

[walt]

There is NO system of "lightning protection" that has not been hit... After we were hit I did a ton of research which included recruiting a friend who works for a large marine underwriter. It took a while but he got to his actuarials who compre claims data. Bottom line was EVERY hocus pocus "system" of "protection" has been hit

Mainesail, I was just curious if you remember from when you talked to the underwriter if there were any damage claims from a boat that was outfitted for lightning protection by these guys http://www.marinelightning.com/ and the "sidearc" technology they use?

 

[higgs]

A number of years ago a company came out with a great scam for an ion dissipator installed at the masthead. You can now get it for around $130, but at the time they were asking around $300. Their schtick was that if you got hit by lightning they would pay your deductible on your insurance. If the insurance industry is correct at one strike per thousand boats, onbe can see the racket here. the device could not have cost $75 to make ( they now are availabe for $130). do the math. Sell a thousand at $200 profit and pay out $500 bucks for one in a thousand you sell. It didn't matter if it worked, the guy made a bundle on it.

 

[Maine Sail]

Mainesail, I was just curious if you remember from when you talked to the underwriter if there were any damage claims from a boat that was outfitted for lightning protection by these guys http://www.marinelightning.com/ and the "sidearc" technology they use?

Yes there have been boats hit with that system there was one hit that came into a local marina last summer, a power boat from Florida. They had to come all the way to Maine to get hit. Apparently it happened under power and off shore.. It did not sink but it did need extensive electrical work. I think the system did as it was designed to do and kept the boat floating. I think Dr. Thompson sums it up best when he says this:

"Consequently, lightning protection means minimizing the damage caused by lightning in the event of a strike, rather than preventing a strike."


These systems are about trying to minimize damage not prevent strikes and I think people tend to confuse the two.. The damage I see as valuable is protecting the boat from sinking or minimizing side flashes than can kill people on-board..

 

[Ray Bowles]

How systems work.
I live in the NE corner of Washington State and the place is lousy with deer. After a friend hit his 4th deer of the year he bought those "New Deer Whistles" that scare the deer away from your car. A week after the whistles were installed he brought his new Audi by the house and the front end was all busted up. He simply said "This time the deer looked up".
True story.
Ray

 

[robertsapp]

As the thread continues to grow, and you see more anecdotal posts along the lines of "this guy had this system, and he got hit, and it helped save his boat," you'll begin to understand why after following this for the last ten years or so I've come to the personal conclusion that adding some form of lightning arresting system increases your odds of being hit, but reduces the amount of damage if you do. And there's no hard data to prove that my observational conclusion is any better or worse than anyone else's.

 

[Maine Sail]

As the thread continues to grow, and you see more anecdotal posts along the lines of "this guy had this system, and he got hit, and it helped save his boat," you'll begin to understand why after following this for the last ten years or so I've come to the personal conclusion that adding some form of lightning arresting system increases your odds of being hit, but reduces the amount of damage if you do. And there's no hard data to prove that my observational conclusion is any better or worse than anyone else's.

There is data out there that suggests a "grounding system" can help minimize damage and not increase risk of a strike. We should not confuse fuzzy bottle brushes with a down conducting system. The grounding only provides a lower resistance path to Earth when you do get hit. Without it the strike will try to jump from the spar right through the hull to seek ground as it did with the little Cal 22 shown above.. You might want to take a look at the Florida Sea Grant paper where some data is published.

Florida Sea Grant Paper

 

[robertsapp]

Thanks Maine! The paper supports the second half of my assertion, which is that when struck, boats with an arresting system that are hit by lightening suffer somewhat less damage. It does not speak with authority to the first half, which is that adding such a system seems to increase your chances of being hit. Phrases such as "according to the above argument" (which means 'because we believe, it thus must be so') and citing percentages of "from 0% to 67%" means that they're still just expressing an opinion on the subject, and not presenting definitive evidence. Science man, show me the science!

 

[Ross]

87.65 % of all statistics are made up on the spot to support a position.

 

[zeehag]

sum--is merely observation of one guy who is nasa scientist with ultra protected boat in nice n easy's neighbor hood and sailing without anything to protect from lightning off coast of fla...we didnt get hit and he got hit major damage 2 times in 5 yrs.
the science is loose as there is no way to predict what a random shoot of high power electricity will do or where it will go. good luck and smooth sailing-- we having a hurrycame--i am glad i have wood masts.

 

[Ross]

Karen, Stay safe and dry. Ross

 

[zeehag]

rofl...we had a blessed nonevent--one inch of rain does not a ts make..no wind... was a hoax..LOL
is good to know that noaa is still without accuracy in their assessments, but i think the sierra madres helped a lot.
and mebbe i hit him in the eyeball......

 

[Ross]

It just missed you. we have had cat 3 storms come up the coast and were it not for the news we in northeastern Maryland would never have known.
Be sure to thank all of the applicable gods.

 

[zeehag]

ross--i have kissed the sky sooooo much--and thanked for the sierra madres, which kept the bud not for us away from us==mebbe this is a hurrycame hole....is a sweet ton-am getting important work done, so i may stay summer here
.

 

[Sail123]

Google positive lightning. Seems years ago, all lightning was a kinder gentler lightning called negative lightning. Now the solar wind is suturing up a more powerful positive lightning. No protection, repeat no protection is available to most positive lightning strikes.

I wanted to go to the lake this evening and tinker With the boat, but it was starting to rain and I just read about positive lightning. I stayed home.

 

[finding41]

In the case of positive lightning, the charge comes from the positively charged top of a storm cloud, and it connects with a negatively charged streamer. Positive lightning can travel across ten miles (16 kilometers) to meet a negatively charged streamer, releasing a burst of positively charged energy to the Earth. Positive lightning is often associated with human activities, especially rocket launches and the testing of nuclear devices.
From: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-positive-lightning.htm
I leave the rocket testing in the field not the pond.
Wouldn't the wide ground base of the pond be safer than on land. Anything on land is at a higher elevation than on the water.

 

[zeehag]

summer, here, is season for lightning and our 64 inches of rainfall---i am so glad those with lightning protection are nearby to attract the stuff so i can mebbe have a complete and intact boat at the end of it all.......