Dichotomy of sailing

Lake Superior Sailor · Apr 6, 2012

I want to see what's beyond the horizon. I'm carefull as I know not where I travel ,only a hint; by way of charts & stories. Then it's on to the next horizon!....Dale

centerline · Apr 6, 2012

I think that with the conditioning of people in this modern age of nearly everything being automatic and/or motorized, that any of us who chooses to go out upon the water with a serious intent that we are going to harness nature, make it work for us, and and have fun doing it, is going to be persons with more of an optimistic attitude towards all things in life, rather than a pessimistic nay-sayer view of things... IMHO...

Joe · Apr 7, 2012

Dave, I'm just not feeling the dichotomy. I don't see sailors as trying to conquer or harness anything... I see them as trying to coexist with nature in the purest sense.

I think the advice, and criticism, given here is important in that it provides a foundation for someone to pursue their "grand adventure"... I don't see it conflicting at all.

You only have to follow the experiences of those sailors who've taken off on long voyages to know that most spend a lot of time preparing themselves and their boats before casting off.

tommays · Apr 7, 2012

Sailing has a lot of times like this

BUT i spend a LOT of time like this and it rare that new sailors are prepared or even realize the need to work up to it ensure a safe day as the grand adventure cant be a rough rie at times

kloudie1 · Apr 7, 2012

Risk avoidance in controlling the stuff that you can control so that when the stuff that you can't control is with you, things are safe.. Tommays pictures are a great example.

Gary_H · Apr 7, 2012

What your trying to conquer in sailing is not really the wind or the sea but what's inside of thee.

Besides anyone who doesn't think sailing is an adventure has obviously never been sailing with me where just leaving the dock is the stuff of legends and countless hours of entertaining stories.

PaulK · Apr 7, 2012

Physics

Great point about the contradictory issues involved in sailing. Smooth water one day - 20' waves the next. Going boldly where no one has gone before - and making sure you don't fall off the edge. Sailing is a series of balanced variables that you set up and adjust every time you go out, some of which (like rudder angle) may need to change with every wave. If the balance is off: if you have too much sail up, or too little, or it's in too tight, or out too far, or the centerboard is up too far, or the keel too deep, or the water pump clogs... any number of tiny things can effect having a nice sail. When they all balance out - it's great.

Ross · Apr 7, 2012

Sailing is all about risk , consequences, and rewards. Once you are able to understand those factors and control your response to them you can enjoy sailing.

kenn · Apr 7, 2012

No dichotomy, it's a continuum

Safety gets stressed here alot because this is a public forum and the uninitiated will be reading this. Also because there are still alot of boneheads afloat.:cussing:

Water is NOT our natural home, so, even on the mildest, most pleasant sailing day, we are still venturing into a potentially hostile environment that can easily kill us, and we are relying on equipment, knowledge and judgement to keep us and our passengers safe.

But I think that's part of the attraction - boating can be experienced at many different levels, and each season we acquire a bit more knowledge and improve our equipment to take on slightly more challenging conditions.This is enjoyable in itself, and expands our range.

Stu Jackson · Apr 7, 2012

It's not about conquering anything. That mindset is really foolish. The pleasure I get is from two things: great sails regardless of the weather and being able to (and needing to) fix things because all sailboat have complicated systems whether they be the rigging or the equipment like pumps and electrical.

When I broke my leg skiing three years ago, I found I really missed our weekly sails. It's as much about the enjoyment mentally as is it the regularity.

Some hate working on their boats and either hire help or put things off. I don't like anyone else working on my boat, 'cuz they rarely do as good a job as I would. Had some help recently who forgot to tighten a hose clamp and the new coolant leaked - again - which was exactly what we were trying to fix in the first place!

I went down, tightened the clamp which was in a fairly inaccessible place, and things are fine. Hard to get good help...

Bu that same helper did a great job a few weeks earlier when we replaced the 26 year old exhaust hose.

All of the overdue repairs were things I would have done had I not been interrupted by the leg thing.

Simple regular maintenance is much better than backing them all up and having to do major overhauls.

But now that we have the big things behind us, and spring is finally here, it's back to the "let's go sailing" mentality.

As Peggie says, that's why they call it preventive maintenance.

It's hard to keep a boat up if you don't enjoy working on it as much as sailing it.

thinwater · Apr 7, 2012

cephius (Dave) said:
Many are drawn to sailing by the idea of the grand adventure. Yet when I read the recommendations and advice given by sailors in these forums and elsewhere, I get an overall impression of a risk avoidance mindset.

Not complaining, just pondering.

Very true. And as always, thoughtful responses...
"Besides anyone who doesn't think sailing is an adventure has obviously never been sailing with me where just leaving the dock is the stuff of legends and countless hours of entertaining stories. "

No question, many boats don't go far because arm chair adventures and real ones are very different. I've done a lot of climbing and mountaineering in scary places. Once, descending from an ice climb in the Tetons my climbing partner an I got to questioning why, in 25 years of climbing together, we had never had a true epic. The reason, of course, is that the line between adventure and dead can be very fine. Flirt with the line long enough....

Flirting is fun, but it can be a tricky business. Best to find trips that feel adventurous--somewhere new--but not actually dangerous. Sail often enough and adventure will find you.

Bad Obsession · Apr 7, 2012

Risk taking is foolish when you don't know the risk. Calculated risk taking is fun. Why put yourself, your crew, and your expensive equipment in harms way when it can be avoided by prudent decisions and calculating the issues.

There will always be risk in everything we do.

One thing is that mother nature is a force that is not conquered or taken lightly. I agree with the idea of coexisting with nature. It is a harmony. It is also a wise man who sees the weather conditions and elects to stay in a safe harbor rather than try to ride it out.

The grand adventure is the journey. If it is light winds or heavy weather, if it is a true adventure, you will remember it either way. Maybe it was that osprey fighting with a bald eagle over your boat in the anchorage, the boat speed you saw on the beam reach to get there, or a misadventure that you had along the way. That is what this whole thing is about.

Ross · Apr 7, 2012

I explain risk this way: Place a 6x6 ten foot long timber on the ground and walk the length of it. Your risk of falling is plain. The consequences are very small. Now raise the timber three feet above the ground and walking it presents the very same risk but the consequences have shifted. Continue to raise the timber and the consequences can become a matter of life and death.

thinwater · Apr 7, 2012

Ross said:
I explain risk this way: Place a 6x6 ten foot long timber on the ground and walk the length of it. Your risk of falling is plain. The consequences are very small. Now raise the timber three feet above the ground and walking it presents the very same risk but the consequences have shifted. Continue to raise the timber and the consequences can become a matter of life and death.

Well put.

Add to it perhaps a close friend that has fallen off a beam high in the air (substitute something real to you). Add any beams you've fallen off. The math gets complicated and changes from year to year. Somethings I avoid more than I used to, though I'm not actually scared; I just calculate that some risks aren't worth anything to me now, and others are less because my skill has increased.

mark_swart · Apr 9, 2012

cephius (Dave) said:
Many are drawn to sailing by the idea of the grand adventure. Yet when I read the recommendations and advice given by sailors in these forums and elsewhere, I get an overall impression of a risk avoidance mindset.

Not complaining, just pondering.

We get out and attempt to harness a truly awesome force capable of destroying cities. That force extracts heavy dividends if we don’t respect it and go as prepared and alert as possible.

I do notice that encouragement abounds and true Nay Sayers are very rare from both new and seasoned sailors.

What are your thoughts on this dichotomy of the sailing mind?

I think I've seen what you're talking about. A while back there was a thread on "checklists" of things people do before they go out on their boat. In my opinion, let's just say I thought some of them were a bit OCD and I'll admit, I did roll my eyes a bit. But I guess it depends on what kind of sail you are prepping for. If you are doing an afternoon on a little lake, a week on the bay, or a bluewater crossing. For instance, most of my pleasure sails are just a few hours for now, and we jump on and go. But at the same time, I try keep the boat prepped for racing, so most of the maintenance tasks are already factored in. And I'm very fortunate to live 15 minutes from my boat, so I see it several times a week.

I have also noticed that the stakes go up exponentially with the size of the boat. I actually worked back down to a 27 footer from a 34 because I find the smaller boat to be more fun and less responsibility for what I do with it.

All in all I do appreciate the informative and encouraging nature that abounds on this discussion board, and I guess in the end, we all have our own threshold of safety and caution that we should adhere to. Because nobody wants to get themselves or anyone else hurt because of something they could have done but decided not to.