Inverter Suggestions

[FourPoints]

I sized it to 130 amps because the starter for the 8hp outboard pulls from that busbar also (attached on the same lug as the battery cable so it's not pulling through the busbar). The 130 amp fuse will blow in the event any of those wires have a dead short, but won't cause any issues with the starter.

basically no power leaves the batteries that doesn't go through that 130A fuse,

 

[Ron20324]

... Do I really need anything additional?

YES! You need a fuse within 7 inches if possible on EACH of the battery outputs. My B32 has an OEM 100-amp on each battery.

You need a fuse or breaker on the output of the inverter, AT the inverter or as close as you can to it, and sized to the wire size. That GFCI ain't gonna get it- it's not amp amp-draw protection. The inverter you chose MAY have GFCI in it already? You do not want 50 amps going into that 15-amp rate 110 outlet nor the skimpy extension cord wire you said you were using:naughty:

You need to keep that #4 battery cable size AT LEAST through the switch and to that ANL130 fuse. If you have spare 4, run it on to the buss bars. If you get spare fuses, and you should, I suggest 100 amps. IF that starter blows, go back to the 130. Fuses protect the WIRES from meltdown, not the electronics.

If you already have that ANL fuseholder in place, size it (120, I believe) according to the #6 inverter feed cables or the breaker panel cables, whichever is smaller.

 

[mitiempo]

I agree you need a fuse on each battery close to the positive post. As drawn the wiring from the batteries to the switch is unprotected.

If the wire from the bus to the inverter is smaller than the wire from the batteries to the switch there should be a smaller fuse between the bus and the inverter. The 130 amp fuse will not adequately protect the 6 awg wires from the bus to the inverter. 6 awg wire can handle 120 amps continuous by the way outside an engine compartment, and 102 amps inside the engine compartment.

The Promariner uses a telephone cord for connecting the remote as does the Xantrex. They can be purchased in any length required.

If you decide on the Xantrex they caution the smallest DC cable used should be 4 awg and they recommend larger. They also recommend a cable run from battery to inverter of 6' or less.

Most often when I install an inverter it is fed by a larger battery bank, not 2 smaller ones leading to a selector switch. The positive feed is fused directly from the batteries or through a simple switch and to the inverter.

 

[Sumner]

I sized it to 130 amps because the starter for the 8hp outboard pulls from that busbar also (attached on the same lug as the battery cable so it's not pulling through the busbar). The 130 amp fuse will blow in the event any of those wires have a dead short, but won't cause any issues with the starter.

basically no power leaves the batteries that doesn't go through that 130A fuse,

I'm using....

... 60 amp maxi fuses on both batteries and have no proplems starting a 9.8 HP Tohatsu.

I think the outboard actually draws less than 50 amps and that amount for only the first second or so.

Good luck,

Sum

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[BillyK]

i have the Xantrex 1000 Watt prosine unit.. i went with Gauge-0 to keep voltage loss to a minimum. if a wire as thick as a garden hose can't handle it, nothing will

 

[mitiempo]

i have the Xantrex 1000 Watt prosine unit.. i went with Gauge-0 to keep voltage loss to a minimum. if a wire as thick as a garden hose can't handle it, nothing will

I would do the same on an inverter that size.

 

[FourPoints]

Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions. I went back to the drawing board and came up with this. sorry the bad pics, it started raining as I finished up so I was in a hurry to finish and didn't look and see how they turned out until I got home.





Coming off the main battery 1/2/B switch I am going straight into the ANL fuse block (top left in first pic). I reduced the fuse size to 100A from the 130A I was planning based on suggestions.

From there I split the output to a single switch, and to the 100A buss bar. The buss bar handles all positive loads except for the inverter, and the switch goes to the inverter. This allows me to disconnect the inverter from the battery to prevent phantom loads when it isn't being used. From the switch it is another 3 feet of wire to where I mounted the inverter. For the ground I ran it straight to the battery post.

All of the wire is 4AWG, and I also upgraded the ground wire that linked the two batteries to 4 AWG from 6 AWG.

I was also took the opportunity to shorten the cable from the main battery switch after installing the ANL fuse block, it used to go straight to the buss bar, and had about 12 extra inches of cable length.

I powered up the inverter and plugged in what is probably going to be the highest load I will ever use for any length of time, my heat gun for heat shrinking cables, and it worked great. The inverter reported that the input voltage dropped and stabilized between 11.7v -11.8v while it was on so I think that's more than acceptable given it had a 300-400w load on it, particularly since I was running off of only one battery at the time.

Last thing I need to figure out now is if I need 12 AWG wire to wire the 110v outlets, or can I safely use 14 AWG? it's $10 cheaper to run 14 AWG if I can...

 

[FourPoints]

The Promariner uses a telephone cord for connecting the remote as does the Xantrex. They can be purchased in any length required.

FYI, I had to go and physically look at the ProMariner remote the determine the specs, it's a 10' cable length and it is NOT a telephone wire that would be easy to adjust. The wire is attached to the back of the remote panel and is terminated at the inverter end with a 3 or 4 pin connector that looks similar to, and might even be a molex connector. It could be extended, but clearly is not intended to be.

The Xantrex is a RJ-25 connector with flat wire common to many old office desk phones

 

[Sumner]

....Last thing I need to figure out now is if I need 12 AWG wire to wire the 110v outlets, or can I safely use 14 AWG? it's $10 cheaper to run 14 AWG if I can...

In a house 110 circuit 14 is good for 15 amps and 12 is good for 20. Don't know what the boat speces call for. All my house outlet wiring is 12.

$10....you even going to know you spent the extra $10 a week from now ,

Sum

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[FourPoints]

In a house 110 circuit 14 is good for 15 amps and 12 is good for 20. Don't know what the boat speces call for. All my house outlet wiring is 12.

$10....you even going to know you spent the extra $10 a week from now

The Xantrex says the outlet on it is rated for 15A so I would assume that I won't need anything more than that.

As for the $10, I'm redoing / upgrading nearly the entire electricial system this spring... if said "oh why not, it's only $10 more" every time I purchased something for this project, I would have easily spent a couple hundred dollars more...

Sure it's only $10, but with the dozen other purchases this week, it would have been $120, and the week before that $240 etc...

That said, I'll happily spend the $10 if necessary for safety or reliability, I just don't want to spend more on the wire than I actually need to and have the extra cost go to waste...


Edit: I just did the math and 600W is only 5.5 Amps @ 110v, so I'll never be able to push 15A down that wire anyway...

 

[Sumner]

...Edit: I just did the math and 600W is only 5.5 Amps @ 110v, so I'll never be able to push 15A down that wire anyway...

Not trying to be a pain, so this will be my last post, but is there any chance that you would ever have this circuit connected to shore power? If so and you wanted to run a skill saw or small space heater the #12 would be more insurance.

By the way we have spent that extra $10 many times over and will never get it back out of the boats when we sell either one, but we will sure enjoy what we have while we have it.

Sum

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[FourPoints]

Not trying to be a pain, so this will be my last post, but is there any chance that you would ever have this circuit connected to shore power?

no chance. the only thing it will ever be connected to is the inverter. (and you're not being a pain at all, it's a legitimate question)

 

[mitiempo]

I use 14 gauge (14/3) for all outlet wiring I do. Tinned stranded boat cable of course.

 

[mitiempo]

FYI, I had to go and physically look at the ProMariner remote the determine the specs, it's a 10' cable length and it is NOT a telephone wire that would be easy to adjust. The wire is attached to the back of the remote panel and is terminated at the inverter end with a 3 or 4 pin connector that looks similar to, and might even be a molex connector. It could be extended, but clearly is not intended to be.

The Xantrex is a RJ-25 connector with flat wire common to many old office desk phones

They make it difficult. Xantrex and Magnum use commonly available cables. In one manual, I forget which, they say to buy a telephone cable of the length needed if the supplied one isn't long enough. On the Promariner I was going by their manual which shows what looks to be a telephone cable connection - #6 below.

Well done installation by the way. The inverter will run better because of it.

 

[FourPoints]

They make it difficult. Xantrex and Magnum use commonly available cables. In one manual, I forget which, they say to buy a telephone cable of the length needed if the supplied one isn't long enough. On the Promariner I was going by their manual which shows what looks to be a telephone cable connection - #6 below.

I saw the same thing in the manual, and then I looked at the actual remote through the package while at the defender sale on Friday, and it has a molex style connector on it. argyle38 was with me and we looked at it together, confirmed there was no easy way to extend that to the length necessary. The only thing we didn't do was open the box for the promariner 600w model and look at the front of it (they didn't have one on the shelf or I would have).

I use 14 gauge (14/3) for all outlet wiring I do. Tinned stranded boat cable of course.

Just ordered 25' of it from genuinedealz.com, IMO the greatest source for marine wireing ever!

Well done installation by the way. The inverter will run better because of it.

Thanks!

I'll post pics of the inverter once I get the 110v installed.

Last question.... Do you think it will cause any problems if the 110v wire is ran through the same cable path as the 12v feed line to the main panel? I'm kinda limited on cable routing options from the lazerette where everything is installed.

 

[mitiempo]

Everything I have read says it should be separate. But the builders of most boats didn't read that I guess, as it often is. I have not heard of any issues from doing so and if you have no other option I would. I wouldn't run both 12 and 120 tightly in the same conduit but along the same pathway a ways apart if possible.

As far as the inverter remote, if the connector on the inverter itself is a telephone connection an extension could possibly be added, rather than replacing the entire cable.

 

[FourPoints]

Everything I have read says it should be separate. But the builders of most boats didn't read that I guess, as it often is. I have not heard of any issues from doing so and if you have no other option I would. I wouldn't run both 12 and 120 tightly in the same conduit but along the same pathway a ways apart if possible.

I always thought you needed to keep them away so that you don't create any inductive noise on the DC circuits from the AC circuts. This wouldn't cause to much of a problem as I won't be the inverter too much / often, and unlikley at the same time as the VHF (were noise would cause a real problem), but if I can avoid it I would rather do so...

I may not be able to avoide some spots where they need to be near each other, but I'll do my best to keep them as seperate as I can.

As far as the inverter remote, if the connector on the inverter itself is a telephone connection an extension could possibly be added, rather than replacing the entire cable.

Ultimatly the fact that the Xantrex had a easily extendable (or shortenable) wire, and the fact that I was able to confirm this from the documentation, was the main reason why I went that route (the true sine wave output is nice too)... Hopefully I don't have to contact support for anything, but from my experience trying to get information out of ProMariner, I don't think Xantrex could possibly be any worse.

 

[mitiempo]

I have only had to contact Xantrex once for a return authorization for a defective charger. I had no problems and was treated well.

AC wiring runs - on most boats, at least smaller ones, there is usually no AC current when away from the dock. I realize the lower voltage lines can possibly pick up noise but have never heard of it happening nor come across it myself. I would keep it away from DC if easily done.

Years ago when in the audio/video business I installed and pre-wired houses during construction. We were in most cases running signal wires (speaker or control) and it was very important to keep them away from the AC runs. We wanted to be at the house after the AC was run so our work wasn't screwed up by the electrician. The wires we ran made 12 volt look like high voltage.