Victron Cyrix combiner?

[Kettlewell]

Any comments on the Victron Cyrix combiner? Seems to have good specs. and be less costly than most of the others out there. Can be had for less than $50 at several online places. I noticed the USA agent for Victron is based out of Thomaston, Maine, so you may know him.

 

[Maine Sail]

Any comments on the Victron Cyrix combiner? Seems to have good specs. and be less costly than most of the others out there. Can be had for less than $50 at several online places. I noticed the USA agent for Victron is based out of Thomaston, Maine, so you may know him.

While I like lots of Victron products the Cyrix is not one of them. In my opinion it is rather flimsy in build, the studs are not well protected, the studs are bare brass which will corrode faster than plated brass. It also has no indicator light or ability for remote on/off or remote LED.. It also lacks Blue Seas excellent SI or starting isolation feature. The Blue Sea 120SI is significantly more robust, fully epoxy potted, the 3/8" studs are very robust, well covered and plated to resist corrosion.

The 120SI can be had for not much more than the Cyrix. I'm sure the Cyrix will work but I could not get past the rather flimsy build quality to even bother trying one despite the slightly better price..

I did know Chris quite well up at Victron in Thomaston but he recently left and I've not yet heard who will replace him...

 

[Don12364]

Ask Victron how much current it draws whilst in the 'connected' condition. My Blue Seas unit draws .2 Amps. That is what you are stuck with because it hangs in there until it brings BOTH batteries down to 13.8 volts before it lets go and the self consumption rate drops to 4 mA.
I couldn't bring myself to lock up and go home in the knowledge that there was a 200mA standing load on the batteries and didn't want to trust it would switch off before either I returned or it made the boat unmoveable with no electrics whatsoever on either battery. I am not in a marina so no permanent shore power.

My brand new Blue Seas unit now sits on my garage shelf!

 

[Maine Sail]

Ask Victron how much current it draws whilst in the 'connected' condition. My Blue Seas unit draws .2 Amps. That is what you are stuck with because it hangs in there until it brings BOTH batteries down to 13.8 volts before it lets go and the self consumption rate drops to 4 mA.
I couldn't bring myself to lock up and go home in the knowledge that there was a 200mA standing load on the batteries and didn't want to trust it would switch off before either I returned or it made the boat unmoveable with no electrics whatsoever on either battery. I am not in a marina so no permanent shore power.

My brand new Blue Seas unit now sits on my garage shelf!

Don,

I suspect you're being a little over cautious? I have yet to find any VSR fail in the "combined state" nor seen one fail to disconnect and go into standby when the battery voltage drops.

0.004 A is very little to ask of any device in standby. The Blue Sea ACR on our boat draws 0.003 A in standby and 0.168 A in combined mode, as measured with a Fluke. Being in Maine we have mostly mooring sailed boats here. We also have lots and lots of boats with ACR/VSR relays. In my experience these devices have helped prolong battery life, not detract from it.

At 0.004 A for a VSR in standby mode this equates to 0.096 Ah per day (ours is 0.072 Ah/day). This translates to 0.67 Ah per week (ours is 0.5Ah per week). Even if you went two full weeks without using your boat you're still only looking at 1.3 Ah consumed. Ours draws 1Ah per week in standby or just 0.26% of the bank capacity per week.

The nice thing about the Blue Sea VSR's is that they allow you to install an ON/OFF switch in the neg lead. If you don't want it combining and your starting battery is full simply flip it off then no standby and no worries about a failure to disconnect (which I have never seen nor heard of).

So in terms of consumption our Blue Sea ACR =

STANDBY CURRENT = 0.003A
COMBINED CURRENT = 0.168A
STANDBY / DAY = 0.072Ah
STANDBY / WEEK = 0.5Ah
STANDBY / 2 WEEKS = 1Ah
STANDBY / 3 WEEKS = 1.5Ah
PERCENT OF BANK CAPACITY / WEEK = 0.26%

 

[Stu Jackson]

The nice thing about the Blue Sea VSR's is that they allow you to install an ON/OFF switch in the neg lead. If you don't want it combining and your starting battery is full simply flip it off.

This is true of the older West Marine and Yandina combiners, too. I've done that. Simple to install, I just used a simple toggle switch.

 

[Don12364]

Maine & Stu

Thank you both.
Yes I am not concerned abut the 4mA of parasitic drain 24/7 of the Blue Seas ACR because I also have a Link 1000 - standing current 41 mA, an advanced Adverc Alternator controller - 5mA, a Navtex engine for laptop - standing current 45 mA, a burglar alarm - 2 mA, a Solar Controller - 22 mA and a bilge pump 5 A but only when running - all on my 'Always On' circuit.
And, of course, a solar panel to keep up with all this.

My conventional (OEM supplied) simple relay combiner became intermittent at about the time Blue Seas emerged as a supplier of marine electrical goods so I purchased the Blue Seas ACR (single input model).
I measured the ACR 'ON' current, also with Fluke DVM, at 200 mA and saw little future in guaranteeing I ran the batts down to 13.8v having just taken the trouble to fully charge them.

Then again, I charge my engine start battery as a priority so the ACR went into the dreaded slow chatter with 360 Ah across 85 Ah. It has circuitry that prevents it fast chattering.

Anyway I chucked up my combiner and turned the rim off, cleaned and reset its contacts, sealed it up with epoxy so it is now properly sealed and I put it back on board.
All nearly a decade ago.
No problems since.

Stu - I guess I am no different than anybody else in that I forget to turn things off. Easy to discover one needs to turn them ON but OFF - I can't be trusted. So yet another switch would be anathema.

The responsibility of owning a modern boat is onerous. I already have one that could only be sold to another electrical/electronics engineer as anyone with less skills would soon get into a pickle.

 

[Kettlewell]

I measured the ACR 'ON' current, also with Fluke DVM, at 200 mA and saw little future in guaranteeing I ran the batts down to 13.8v having just taken the trouble to fully charge them.

If you just let the batteries sit for a little while with absolutely nothing attached they will very soon drop below 13.8 no matter what you do, so maybe the draw of the combiner accelerates that by a minute. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Stu - I guess I am no different than anybody else in that I forget to turn things off. Easy to discover one needs to turn them ON but OFF - I can't be trusted. So yet another switch would be anathema.

The responsibility of owning a modern boat is onerous. I already have one that could only be sold to another electrical/electronics engineer as anyone with less skills would soon get into a pickle.

Don,

I hear ya! I have been known as "Toggle Switch Man" and am just waiting for someone to design a Caped Crusader outfit for me!

Toggle switches employed: combiner, Small Engine Mode for the external MC-612 regulator, fuel lift pump shutoff in engine room, added downlights in saloon, and freshwater galley sink pump.

I never thought to write up a "checklist" for my boat, 'cuz know how to use it, as you do yours. And, as you know, I have a bunch of wiring diagrams. Once my son started sailing with me again, I started to work on one. It's pretty basic, and I know folks have tons of their own checklists (I am NOT asking for any more). It's all of two pages, and I think I'll add some "Here's what all of these toggle switches are for" to it!