Dancing With Your Sister!

[Sam Salter]

Just watched the inshore race of the Volvo 70 in China on TV.
Commentators were talking about the wind shifts and puffs close to land, how the Spaniards on Telefonica were handling it and how you understand this stuff. One of the commentators said:
"It's like dancing with your sister" - well! 50 years of fighting with sail trim suddenly became clear. Who knew? I've never read that before in "Sail Magazine" or Good Old Boat"!
RichH you can jump in anytime - I'm sure you have a technical explanation of what "dancing with your sister" means.
Seriously though, what cool boats?
I'd love to have a couple of hours on one and experience 25 knots in a monohull.
OK - back to the serious stuff - sorry Don - I'll keep quiet now!!!
sam

 

[All U Get]

Sam,
My sister can't dance since being hit by a motor vehicle while crossing the street. When the driver was questioned as to why he didn't avoid her by going around, he replied he only had 1/2 tank of gas.
All U Get

 

[RichH]

There are many (mostly out of print) texts on racing vs. 'localized' weather and air flow phenomenon, where the wind flows and airflow 'stability' are altered near shore by cliffs, river entrances, irregular shorelines, temperature differences between land and water, etc. etc.

Back in the day when sailboat racing was going 'full blast' (1970s & 80s) such texts such as "Wind and Strategy", Walker (http://www.amazon.com/Wind-Strategy-Stuart-Walker/dp/0393332586) were the best sources .... turbulence, wind instability, expected change of flow near shorelines, etc. etc.

Ive posted some of these effects previously, but not in any great detail ... http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=123670 and immediately 'adjacent threads'. I used such knowledge to help win a "lot of pewter" and still use that info to sail rather than motor on long distance travel, especially along the east coast and the islands.
Lake sailors have the advantage over salty sailors in that they constantly deal with such variable effects on a continual basis.

Knowing when to tack, or reasonably expecting when to tack, WHERE to sail ... is possible and quite rewarding whether racing or or just 'traveling'; and, its mostly based on local and predictable 'weather/air flow anomalies'.
All you really need for this is a good magnetic compass and full set of tell tales and a brief knowledge of the 'expected' !!!

Some 'rules': wind usually attempts to cross a shoreline at a near 'right angle' no matter how the wind is blowing well inshore or off shore when there is a temp diff. between the land and water, wind is usually stronger 'under' a cloud (in summer), a point of land will usually 'divide' the wind - run in close to the 'point' then tack to gain a 'lift', all bodies of water usually have a 'sea breeze' near to the shoreline, look at the soaring birds up high to tell you which way the wind is 'updrafting' and stay on the sides of the rotating upwelling of air and never under the middle of the upwelling, large shoreline prominences & cliffs behave like sails - use their 'upwash', etc. etc.

When racing any 'inch' you gain when going in the 'right' direction and at the highest possible speed is a net gain.
;-)

 

[Gudenuph]

There are many (mostly out of print) texts on racing vs. 'localized' weather and air flow phenomenon, where the wind flows and airflow 'stability' are altered near shore by cliffs, river entrances, irregular shorelines, temperature differences between land and water, etc. etc.

Back in the day when sailboat racing was going 'full blast' (1970s & 80s) such texts such as "Wind and Strategy", Walker (http://www.amazon.com/Wind-Strategy-Stuart-Walker/dp/0393332586) were the best sources .... turbulence, wind instability, expected change of flow near shorelines, etc. etc.

Ive posted some of these effects previously, but not in any great detail ... http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=123670 and immediately 'adjacent threads'. I used such knowledge to help win a "lot of pewter" and still use that info to sail rather than motor on long distance travel, especially along the east coast and the islands.
Lake sailors have the advantage over salty sailors in that they constantly deal with such variable effects on a continual basis.

Knowing when to tack, or reasonably expecting when to tack, WHERE to sail ... is possible and quite rewarding whether racing or or just 'traveling'; and, its mostly based on local and predictable 'weather/air flow anomalies'.
All you really need for this is a good magnetic compass and full set of tell tales and a brief knowledge of the 'expected' !!!

Some 'rules': wind usually attempts to cross a shoreline at a near 'right angle' no matter how the wind is blowing well inshore or off shore when there is a temp diff. between the land and water, wind is usually stronger 'under' a cloud (in summer), a point of land will usually 'divide' the wind - run in close to the 'point' then tack to gain a 'lift', all bodies of water usually have a 'sea breeze' near to the shoreline, look at the soaring birds up high to tell you which way the wind is 'updrafting' and stay on the sides of the rotating upwelling of air and never under the middle of the upwelling, large shoreline prominences & cliffs behave like sails - use their 'upwash', etc. etc.

When racing any 'inch' you gain when going in the 'right' direction and at the highest possible speed is a net gain.
;-)

I wonder why we seldom see a reference to Bethwaite's High Performance Sailing. Am I missing something? The micro-meteorology sections and the near shore Quadrant Effects are pretty heavy reading but quite interesting. Is Walker's explanation more practical? With the slow boat in the fleet, O'Day 25, correct wind and current strategies are a must. Sure would like your opinion.

Geohan

 

[RichH]

Never read Bethwaite, so I have no point of reference.

As to having the highest PHRF in the fleet, that can sometimes be an advantage ... if you can sail the boat to its 'numbers', etc. Anything you can to do to improve boat speed, boat handling, tactics, etc. is always a big plus ... plus of course you need to have a 'correct' PHRF or Portsmouth rating by your fleet; but, that isnt always possible.

 

[Sam Salter]

I've got Bethwaite - I'm wading through it now. Who would believe you could write 160 pages about wind!
As a lake sailor in Canada, my boats on the hard as the lake is hard too!
So I've got lots of time to try and understand it.
I like all the technical detail in the book and I suspect he knows what he's talking about.
Unfortunately, I hate weather stuff - can't seem to get into it, so it's going slowly, but I'll get there.
RichH - I'm not a racer, but I hate being overtaken. I suspect taking up racing would soon get some of that knowing when to tack, and recognizing shifts into my thinking. It will take a little longer, but I'll eventually absorb it!

sam

 

[Gudenuph]

Sam
Hooray!! Findly found someone also reading Bethwaite. I'm reading for the fourth time as I've found it best to just let soak in what will each time, the lazy way, rather than to force it in with one sitting. Do you have the "High Performance Sailing" or the sequel, "High-er Performance Sailing"? There is a lot of good near shore stuff in that book and I think it's a mistake to allow your competition to read it. LOL
Geohan

 

[RobertLangdirect]

Please, without too much detail, is it worth the reading?

 

[Sam Salter]

Gudenuph,

I've got both.
I'm like you, I keep them in the toilet and read a page or two every day.
I think there is some cool stuff in there. But it's not the book to buy if you are looking for "which string to pull to make you go faster!"

If you know how to sail, and believe you are good at sail trim, I think this is the book to get you off the plateau and start to claw back a few extra seconds.
There is detail upon detail about wind, water, boat, and people stuff. This guy has been part of there Olympic program (Aussies) and is an aeronautical engineer (I think) too! so it's got a lot of stuff that may be overkill.

But once you get to a certain level of sailing, a lot of stuff you read you already know. But you always get a few things that you didn't know, or hadn't seen it explained that way, or thought you had the answer but this sounds a better technique.

RobertLangdirect - It's difficult to say. It depends what sort of stuff you're into. I think for a lot of people it would be heavy going, but everyone would find some useful stuff in it.

...And I would love to try an hour or two on a 49er!

sam

 

[Sam Salter]

On a slightly different note, books - any books- but sailing books in particular - can be expensive.
Try:
http://www.abebooks.com/

Second hand books from independent bookstores across Canada, US, UK and Australia. Some real bargains and free postage sometime. They say secondhand, but often they are new. One of the Bethwaite books cost me $56 US new plus shipping from Annapolis Performance Sailing. The other was $16 US with free shipping from ABE Books.

sam

 

[mulldog47]

Draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of attack! And most importantly, look at
your telltales! Thanks Don, Mulldog47

 

[Don Guillette]

mulldog47: Yup, I agree and the suject is to deep for a common seaman like me. Sam Salter hit it right when he said you have to know how to sail (anyone one can get a boat to move throught the water - even a monkey if I fed him enough bananas!!) BUT he also said you better know how to trim your sails. If a sailor doesn't understand the "4 elements of sail trim" he can sit in the head reading until the ring around his rear end becomes permenant and the materail won't do him much good plus he'll get a head ache.

 

[Gudenuph]

Sam
Thanks for your insights, and I agree except for the 'ride on a 49er' part. The picture on the book jacket is enough for me! LOL
Geohan