Moisture in rudder

alexco38 · Feb 7, 2012

Just drill a hole to drain the water out. Most people in northern area do that every year to prevent freeze crack.

Joe11688 · Feb 7, 2012

Joe5893 said:
Sometimes I do things, then I wonder why I did them...anyway, my rudder seemed too heavy for no bigger than what it is (I have an Oday 25). I have a friend who suggested that maybe my rudder had absorbed water and now it's trapped inside the rudder making it heavy. I borrowed a moisture meter and it reads between 8% to 10 % over various parts of the rudder. The problem I have now is that I have no idea how much, if any, evidence of moisture being present could lead to excessive weight in the rudder or possibly bigger problems.

Does anyone have any guidelines for moisture levels? If 8% to 10% is high, what are some effective methods for getting rid of the moisture (short of buying a new rudder)? I believe my current rudder is the factory rudder from O'day. I know the outside is fiberglass, but I don't know if it has some type of core material.

Any help/advice is appreciated!

Thanks,

Joe

Joe,
You would be wise to direct your questions to the "Ask an O'Day owner" section of this forum site.
Chances are your rudder blade has water in it. There is probably a crack in the seam where the water is getting in.

These rudder blades were manufactured for O'Day by a company called Foss Foam in Clearwater FL back then. They were molded in two half sections and glued together and pumped with Urea formaldehyde foam. Why they did this, I have no friggen' idea. All I can tell you is that I went through two of these blades on my 1986 O'Day 222 before I bought a solid blade off D&R Marine in Assonet Ma., but I have a tip up rudder blade which is different than what you have. My blades broke in half. I think that your blade can be repaired by replacing the core and using epoxy.

This problem also occurs with O'Day 40s and 32s with spade rudders. I remember communicating with a guy in Russia on that forum several years ago who owned an O'Day 32 with the same problem. His spade rudder froze up and opened up at the seams. He was commuting back and forth from Moscow to Helsinki on weekends just to work on his boat.

I had two rudder blades down in my cellar for years and didn't have the heart to chuck them out. I paid $160 for one of them at the O'Day factory in Fall River Ma. back then.
I'm pretty sure that yours can be repaired though. I know of a lady who runs a sailing school on Lake Tahoe who repaired the blade on her 1987 O'Day 222. She also replaced the broken centerboard on this boat with a new one from D&R Marine. http://www.drmarine.com/ She does all her own boat maintenance herself.
Joe

Gunni · Feb 7, 2012

Trinkka said:
Joe,

These rudder blades were manufactured for O'Day by a company called Foss Foam in Clearwater FL back then. They were molded in two half sections and glued together and pumped with Urea formaldehyde foam. Why they did this, I have no friggen' idea.
Joe

Most large sailboat rudders are foam core, otherwise they would weigh a ton. Foss makes a fine product, at a good price. Rudders are a maintenance item.

DannyS · Feb 7, 2012

Here's a link to my rudder repair. It never opened up at the seams, but I think water was getting in at the rudder post and making its way around inside causing the delamination.
http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=744783&highlight=rudder delamination

Joe11688 · Feb 7, 2012

Gunni said:
Most large sailboat rudders are foam core, otherwise they would weigh a ton. Foss makes a fine product, at a good price. Rudders are a maintenance item.

I have to respectfully disagree with you about that company's rudder blades. If they were such a good reputable company back then, why didn't they stand behind their products and make good for them.

I bought my 1986 O'Day 222 brand new in the Boston Boat Show back then. I even visited the O'Day factory in Fall River Ma. to watch it being built. The O'Day factory under the ownership of Lear Siegler Marine was still in business when I went down there the following year to get a rudder blade replacement, and they charged me $160 for it.

After the one year warranty ran out, people were screwed by this company, and the blades on these older O'Days continue to break to this very day. The O'Day company would have been better off using another supplier back then.
Some of the Barlow winches on these boats, mine included, were assembled with fiber spools that would expand in the heat and bind up the drum. A company in CT was consciousness enough to send out bulletins on this issue and make good for it at no cost to the boat owners.

Gunni · Feb 7, 2012

Foss didn't design your boat, CR Hunt did. And Lear Siegler spec'ed the parts. With a lifting centerboard you have special rudder considerations. I wouldn't disagree that your boat probably does need a solid composite rudder. But that was Lear Siegler's call to use a Foss product. At $160 ea. they likely considered them an annual replacement item.

Joe11688 · Feb 7, 2012

Gunni said:
Foss didn't design your boat, CR Hunt did. And Lear Siegler spec'ed the parts. With a lifting centerboard you have special rudder considerations. I wouldn't disagree that your boat probably does need a solid composite rudder. But that was Lear Siegler's call to use a Foss product. At $160 ea. they likely considered them an annual replacement item.

I understand that Foss didn't design my boat, and I never said that they did. I also had the pleasure of meeting one of the Hunt associates at the factory and talking to him about the placement of my tracks w/cars and Gennie winches on the combings that they were kind enough to leave off the cabin for me to install.
I also said, " The O'Day company would have been better off using another supplier back then." and these were my exact words.

I take your point though and I think we should just agree to disagree, and leave it at that.
Have a great sailing season!
Joe

rgranger · Feb 8, 2012

I have this book by Dan Casey

http://www.amazon.com/Caseys-Complete-Illustrated-Sailboat-Maintenance/dp/0071462848

There is an entire section on exactly this topic..... Good read.

alexco38 · Feb 8, 2012

It's impossible to make a totally moisture proof rudder that's light weight. Also it has to expand and shrink due to temperature change.

Idasailor make solid rudder out of HDPE which is "totally waterproof" and neutral buoyancy. It cost a bit more.

http://www.idasailor.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=32&osCsid=09603e76920227b9bead3e800b4178c8

From your Avatar Dighton MA is within freeze zone in North America. Any moisture / water inside the rudder will freeze and expand. How would you design a rudder that's light and freeze proof.

The Answer is easy, drill a hole on the bottom and drain the water before winter. Or else, take the rudder inside the house.

According to Foss, which makes rudders for Hunter, they recommend you paint it white to prevent expansion.

Joe11688 · Feb 8, 2012

alexco38 said:
It's impossible to make a totally moisture proof rudder that's light weight. Also it has to expand and shrink due to temperature change.

Idasailor make solid rudder out of HDPE which is "totally waterproof" and neutral buoyancy. It cost a bit more.

http://www.idasailor.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=32&osCsid=09603e76920227b9bead3e800b4178c8

From your Avatar Dighton MA is within freeze zone in North America. Any moisture / water inside the rudder will freeze and expand. How would you design a rudder that's light and freeze proof.

The Answer is easy, drill a hole on the bottom and drain the water before winter. Or else, take the rudder inside the house.

According to Foss, which makes rudders for Hunter, they recommend you paint it white to prevent expansion.

I disagree with this assessment. He can fix this rudder if he replaces the filler and uses a good epoxy resin. Polyester resins will attract water and soak it up, Epoxy resins won't.
Of course, the blade is going to be a little heavier but the weight difference is negligible and will have no effect on the boat whatsoever.

It would be a good idea to drill a hole in the blade and stand it up near the boiler down cellar so that the inside can dry out completely. A friend of mine in Ohio did that to his centerboard before he fixed it in the spring.

One of the guys in my club built a spade rudder for his 73 O'Day 27 almost from scratch and it came out great.

As for my rudder blade, I've been storing it down my cellar during the winter for years. I also store my boom and and my CDI Roller Furler in the celler along with my stays and spreaders.

The main reason why Foss tells you not to paint the rudder blade a dark color is because the sun can melt the foam inside of it on a hot day. They also tell you not to store the rudder in the trunk of a car on a hot day for the same reason.

He could go out and buy a new blade for his O'Day 25. My friend Rudy gets $1025 for just the blade. http://www.drmarine.com/ He could also fix it too.
So my advice to him is to go down to his local public library and draw out some of Don Casey's excellent books on fiberglass repair and study up on them. I have two of his books myself.

Joe11688 · Feb 8, 2012

Joe5893 said:
Thanks for all the advise everyone! Now I just need to decide which route to take.

Joe

It's your call Joe. A couple of years ago a guy in Texas named Gabriel Donnelly bought an O'Day 25 with a damaged rudder. The PO agreed to fix the rudder blade and get it to him later, but Gabe wanted to put the boat in the water and sail it, as his Dad was coming down for a vacation to visit with him and he wanted to take a sail in his son's boat.
To make a long story short, Gabriel asked on the Odayowners.com forum about the measurements of the rudder and someone was nice enough to send him a sketch. He was able to build a rudder from scratch and use it on his 25. The PO finished work on the rudder and now Gabe has a spare rudder to use just in case one gets damaged. Gabriel posted pictures of the rudder that he built and I have to say that he did an excellent job.
Check out the O'Day Owners forum under "Ask an O'Day Owner" and Day Sailers" for the best info.