361 rudder play

[suttonski]

Hi, When I hauled out my 361 year 2000 in late Octiber I noticed that I had some rudder play. There is no play back and forth or sideways but I can turn the rudder a little to port and startboard. What is the problem? I don't know if I have to remove the rudder and replace something. This is my first sailboat and any help, suggestions will be greatly appreciated. This is probably why I have problem with the autopilot.
Thanks
Georges

 

[Philip_Oceanis 361]

There is no play back and forth or sideways but I can turn the rudder a little to port and startboard.

I cannot quite understand what you mean. Do you mean you can turn the rudder a little bit without turning the wheel? If this is the case then check the quadrant cables. They are probably a bit loose. There is no need to drop the rudder.

What problems do you have with the autopilot? Is it a wheeldrive or a below deck unit?

 

[suttonski]

Hi Philip,
Thanks for getting back so quickly. I can turn the rudder a little but I don't know if the wheel is turning. I am going to the marina this weekend and will check if the wheel is turning.
I have a wheel autopilot and it does not keep the course very well. It goes to much to port than too much to starboard and so on, back and forth. It is worse in wind vane mode.

Thanks
Georges

 

[Philip_Oceanis 361]

A wheelpilot for this boat is really up to the limit. I also used to get this sort of 15+/- degrees from course with my previous ST4000 wheelpilot (and not able to cope with any sort of following seas) until I replaced it with a linear type below deck unit. Now it's really a different world! The best bit of equipment I have ever bought for my boat. Expensive yes but it's amazing and seems to be able to cope with all kinds of conditions.

 

[suttonski]

Hi Philip, Yes this is also what I thought. I bought my 361 in 2006 and it came with the wheelpilot. I have added a rudder reference sensor hoping that it would help but it did not improve as much as I expected.
I am looking at changing the autopilot but have not decided which type yet. I saw a 361 from France and the owner had installed an hydraulic autopilot. He said that it did not use as much electricity as a linear drive. What autopilot did you install? Did you install a folding propeler?

Thanks
Georges

 

[Philip_Oceanis 361]

Hi Philip, Yes this is also what I thought. I bought my 361 in 2006 and it came with the wheelpilot. I have added a rudder reference sensor hoping that it would help but it did not improve as much as I expected.
I am looking at changing the autopilot but have not decided which type yet. I saw a 361 from France and the owner had installed an hydraulic autopilot. He said that it did not use as much electricity as a linear drive. What autopilot did you install? Did you install a folding propeler?

Thanks
Georges

I have the raymarine linear type 1 drive autopilot (with the SPX10 computer and ST6001 control unit) directly linked to the quadrant. As long as the boat is balanced the amp it draws are reasonable. Probably if a lot of steering is needed due to bad weather then it will draw up to 4-5amp per hour. Still it's OK. But the job it does is really amazing. Very fast, very efficient and very reliable (touch wood!).
No I haven't installed a folding prop. I still have the original 2-blade fixed but will replace it with a 3-blade fixed the next time I get the boat out of the water. I hate those vibrations and hope will be eliminated with 3 blades behind the skeg instead of two.
Did you ever get the chance to check the size of your 3-blade fixed prop?
Thanks

 

[suttonski]

Hi Philip,
Yes I did check the size of the propeler but I can not find the stupid piece of paper on which I wrote it down. I should have taken a note on my iphone. I have to go back to the marina this weekend and will measure the prop again. I don't want to give you the wrong info but when I bought Out 'n About the survey mentionned a 3 blabe 15RH13 prop. I will let you know the exact value next Monday. If I find it before the weekend I will inform you. Sorry for not getting back to you earlier.
Regards,
Georges

 

[suttonski]

Hi Philip, My propeler diameter is 15 inches. Do you want me to send you a picture? I have checked my rudder and the play does not turn the wheel. So I will thighten the quadrant cables.
Georges

 

[Philip_Oceanis 361]

Hi Philip, My propeler diameter is 15 inches. Do you want me to send you a picture? I have checked my rudder and the play does not turn the wheel. So I will thighten the quadrant cables.
Georges

Do you have the pitch as well? I would expect it to be 11 but I could be wrong. I have a 2-blade 16X11 and planning to replace it with a 16X10 3-blade.
Yes you could post or send me some pictures. Thanks.

 

[suttonski]

Hi Philip,

The information that I got from the survey when I bought the sailboat indicates that the picth is 13.
Georges

 

[joker460]

Is that how the cutlass bearing looks on a 361 ?? definitely different than that on my 352. Interesting.

 

[suttonski]

Yes, but I noticed that I was missing a rubber bushing. I checked with other Beneteau (331,411,..) at the marina and noticed that many had also lost their bushing.. I will get a replacement next spring. I am looking at installing a feathering propeller but I have made a choice yet. Have look into a folfing or feathering prop? I have a lot of prop walk and would like to get prop that will reduce it.

 

[joker460]

Did you look at the Kiwi Prop. My brother put one on his (cough, cough) Hunter 35 and he swears by it. http://www.kiwiprops.co.nz/

They have dealers here in North America.

I was thinking about getting one. The cost is pretty good compared to the others.

 

[suttonski]

No, but I will look at the Kiwi prop. Thanks.
Georges

 

[Philip_Oceanis 361]

Is that how the cutlass bearing looks on a 361 ?? .

No it shouldn't be like this. It seems that the "hat" of the cutlass bearing was lost (very easy if you catch a line) and for some reason the bearing has started going up the shaft tube. The cutlass bearing, even if you loose the "hat" should end exactly where the shaft exits the tube. You must definately change it and make sure you use the correct length screws (so it never rotates) to hold the new one in place.
The attached is unfortunately a not very good picture but it shows how it should look like.

 

[suttonski]

Thanks Philip for the info and picture. I will change it but I am not sure how to proceed. Have you done that before? Do I need to remove the shaft or just the prop? Don't know how I will get it out of there.
Thanks for the help.
Georges

 

[Philip_Oceanis 361]

Thanks Philip for the info and picture. I will change it but I am not sure how to proceed. Have you done that before? Do I need to remove the shaft or just the prop? Don't know how I will get it out of there.
Thanks for the help.
Georges[/

You don't need to remove the shaft, just the propeller. The last time it was changed a mechanic did it quite easy but he managed to pull it using the 'hat'. Last year I tried to remove it myself because I lost the hat after catching a line but did not succeed because I could't find a way to pull it. I was trying with a thin screwdriver but the result was to destroy it more. But since it wasn't that necessary I left it for the next time. However (after discussion in another forum) it proved that I wasn't using the correct method which seems to be to get two big self tapper screws, drill a pilot hole in the rubber bit, screw the screws in and then use mole grips to pull it out. I hope it works. If not I will make two drill holes along the length and split the stupid thing. We just need to be brave I guess!

 

[suttonski]

Hi Philip,
Thank you very much for the information. My wife wanted to see were the anchor is so I bought a small yellow buoy that I attached to the anchor crown and it worked fine except in one occasion. I normally drop the and wait until I see the yellow buoy before backing up slowly. One day, after a long wait, I still could not see the buoy so I thought that the line was too short and that the buoy was under water. Big mistake! As soon as she puts the reverse on the engine stalled, I had wrap the line around the propeller. That is surely were I lost the "hat" of the cutlass bearing.

Were are you located? Is your boat still in the water? How do you like your 361?
Again thank you for the advice on the cutlass bearing.
Georges

 

[Philip_Oceanis 361]

I live somewhere in the East Mediteranean!
Yes the boat is still in the water and actually I am thinking of leaving it there until next winter and save some costs. The hull is not dirty yet and I use it quite often anyway (at least 3-4 times during the month).
How do I like it? I love it! As I have noticed from your pictures you have the shallow keel version. I have the "not so common" deep keel version (1.80m with a bulb) instead.

 

[James Simmonds]

FYI - There are threads on this forum about how to replace the cutlass bearing. I did min from info i got from this site last spring. Do it right and it will take about 1 hour to replace. Where the thread talks about putting it in the freezer first - they mean it. It will make installation easier.

On the folding prop issues. I installed a VariFold prop on my B331 last spring, the results are amazing. It costs a lot but it was so easy to install and the performance is fantastic. you would not be disappointed.

JS