Wiring 23' ODay with two batteries

[JohnSharon]

Could use some advice. I have a new (old) boat where the fuse panel was located down low and winter had brought in water that corroded the panel. I want to re-wire a new panel, add dual batteries with switch and an isolator so both batteries charge as needed.
My questions are;
-What does the wiring schematic look like for an isolator, outboard, and battery switch with two batteries?
-fuses vs breakers? Breakers better?
-Location of batteries (floor of cabin or set up in cockpit storage area?
-What are good components to incorporate? Voltage gauge? How many breakers? Special treatment for bilge? Junction boxes?
-LED upgrade for lighting, worth the upgrade? Would you incorporate any old style?
-Suggestions for electrical connections near tiller? Equipment?

I am pretty handy with electrics in the past. I would love to really have a good electrical schematic planned out before I start (would be great if someone had one)

I will make another post because the other plan I have is for setting up equipment, GPS (what to look for in a system), VHF radio and what it all looks like on the top of the mast. All fodder for my next post.

Any information, direction, book that could be recommended would be great. Schematic picture book works best for me.

Starting from scratch so now is the time to think it all through!

Appreciate the opinions for all who have gone before, no matter how shocking the advice.

John

 

[Ritdog]

Hi- I'm in Portland, Oday 25 "Room 25".

I can suggest "This Old Boat" by Don Casey first- great book and it covers EVERYTHING.

Try Googling "boat wiring" - you will get a lot of hits.

The bilge pump should be hardwired to the battery through the panel. I have mine running through a DPDT switch which defaults to ON, and that I can TURN on.

The outboard should be the same- hardwired to the battery through a fuse.

I've been told that a digital voltmeter is much more accurate than a needle one, but they vary in price. Am researching. I have 2 batteries in parallel, with ability to check the charge on each. All the circuits are connected to V-POS and NEG bus bars.

It's endless. Try the Casey book, you will like it.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

12v wiring is actually pretty easy, but if you haven't a clue, then maybe not. You said you were handy with "electrics". You can learn. First of all, you need to use stranded wire and not solid core. You want a fuse or breaker for each system. For example, a switch and breaker for the running lights. Another for the steaming light. Another for the deck light (I read your other post). Another for the anchor light. Another for the cabin light. Another for your VHF radio. Another for your bilge pump. Another for your cabin lights, etc. Polarity is meaningless for 12v. lights, but not for motors. If you wire them backwards, they will run backwards. For your boat, with two batteries, you can get by without an isolator. Just wire the batteries through the switch which says 1, 2 or both. You really should use one battery for your outboard (or inboard, if you have one) and the other for your lights, instruments, etc. That way you can always rely on one battery to have enough juice to start your engine. If your outboard is not an electric start engine, then not sure why you need a 2nd battery unless you are planning on having lots of stuff to run one battery down where you need a 2nd.
For near the tiller you might want to put in a cigarette type plug were you can plug in 12v accessories like a hand held GPS.
Battery location is best near the centerline of the boat and not at the ends. So, on your boat, perhaps under the cockpit as close to the centerline as possible.
You can buy a replacement electrical panel with the number of switches that are required to accommodate all the stuff you want to install.
Again, you are outfitting a 23 foot boat as if it were a larger vessel. Not sure why, but do what you want. It is your boat. I just hate to see you spend money needlessly. You might have a good reason, though.

 

[OS2Dude]

I converted my cockpit ice chest into battery compartment. I have two batteries, one for starting the outboard and the other a deep cycle for everything else. I used a battery selector and have a solar setup to keep them charged.

See Owner mods for the 23.


I also made a new panel. I added a digital voltmeter with a selector switch so I can monitor the batteries. I kept the original 4 breakers, and use them to feed 4 columns of lighted switches. I added a water pump for the galley, a bilge pump (With a 3 way switch - ON, OFF, MOMENTARY), Tri-color light, anchor light, foredeck light, 421s chart-reader, stereo, vhf radio, in addition to the cabin lights, accessories, running lights and steaming light circuits from the original panel.

See Owner Photo Gallery for the 23, New Electrical Panel.

 

[JohnSharon]

Thanks guys,
Ritdog, I have got Casey's book (well used) for all sorts of projects and always with sound advice. I guess I just wondered what might have changed from my 10 yr old copy. A great book that has inspired a few projects that were a first for me. (boat electrics being another)

B Bill, I do have electric start with alternator. I just got an eBay isolator so irregardless of battery switch, both batteries get charged, house and starting. Good point for motors.
I am not looking to spend lots of money (Yankee to the core) but hate to be penny wise...dollar poor. My plan is some week long adventures downeast and want to run motor as little as I need yet have lighting as needed for safety. A cigarette lighter near tiller is a good idea. I liked Trinka's idea of a speaker that swings into companionway for VHF. The other thought I had was to mount speaker at end of berth that goes deeply under cockpit so it is close to me at tiller but easily heard in cabin. Another thing Trinka's has on his 222 is a self steering which could be an awesome add on. (certainly a usual bigger boat thing) I am torn with batteries, I guess best advice no matter were they end up is to keep them near the centerline. As I thought more, I need to spend time to insure there are no leaks so batteries should be fine anywhere on boat. Mr Barnacle Bill you always have good sound advice, thanks

OS2Dude, I think I have seen your upgrade to wiring (could not find it just now through your profile) one project I want to tackle (not like I don't have enough already) is to cut a fuel storage locker under the seat on my port side cockpit. (no access now) it has a berth that runs deep under cockpit on that side now but there is room to the stern and it would be good for fumes to get them out of the hold.

The panel you made (assuming it is the one I had seen through previous threads) is excately what I was thinking I would do for my switches, a wood panel up higher in cabin with battery switches, breakers and volt meter. Your water pump idea is intriguing! I also like the idea of some solar panels...do they work well...are they too bulky and in the way? Would be great to see some pics!

You guys are great! Sound advice and some good ideas. My boat is certainly a work in process...

 

[Stu Jackson]

Depending on how you wired your boat, you should seriously reconsider the isolator(s). They drop a full volt of charging just when you need it. If switched and wired properly, you shouldn't need an isolator in your charging system.

 

[JohnSharon]

Depending on how you wired your boat, you should seriously reconsider the isolator(s). They drop a full volt of charging just when you need it. If switched and wired properly, you shouldn't need an isolator in your charging system.

Wow Stu, I researched it and you are absolutely right, the isolator is not a good idea. At first glance, to charge both batteries without having to think about what position the battery switches are in seems like a great idea, but the web says the voltage drop associated with an isolator is almost one volt! It seems it would never allow your batteries to get up to full voltage.

Thanks for the tip Stu. I will just switch between batteries as needed.

 

[kpgraci]

Polarity is meaningless for 12v. lights

Unless they are LEDs!

 

[Maine Sail]

My questions are;
-What does the wiring schematic look like for an isolator, outboard, and battery switch with two batteries?

If that were my system, and I could technically start the motor by hand by pulling the cord, both batteries would get combined into one big bank. No isolator, combiner or Echo Charge device needed. Then you'd also have no need for the 1/2/BOTH switch and only a single ON/OFF would be an excellent choice. You bank would also last longer because you are cycling it less deeply and you would have more cranking amps, not that you need it with a small outboard.

This is how I would do it..

One large bank hard wired in parallel
One ON/OFF switch
All charge sources led direct to the bank
Proper fusing as close to the battery as possible for everything connected to it

-fuses vs breakers? Breakers better?

I prefer breakers on DC panels though "fuse" panles are often cheaper. Your main batteries should generally have fuses as opposed to a breaker.

-Location of batteries (floor of cabin or set up in cockpit storage area?

On a 23 footer as low and close to center line as possible.

-What are good components to incorporate? Voltage gauge? How many breakers? Special treatment for bilge? Junction boxes?

Volt gauges tell you little other than the alternator is working. To get an accurate "state of charge" from one requires the batteries rest for may hours with no loads or charging going on. This rarely will ever happen while out cruisng the coast of Maine so any readings will be "best guesstimates".

If you can find a cheap digital volt gauge, and by cheap I mean under $20.00, that would be better than an analog one but less good than a dedicated battery monitor, which with a pull start motor, may be over kill except for extending battery longevity. For the $170.00 a battery monitor costs it may still pay for itself in lengthening the life of your bank....

Solar would be one of the best things you could do for your bank. Cozy Harbor is moorings, unless you have a private dock, and an outboard won't even come close to filling your batteries back up to full. Getting them back to full as often as possible is important to the life of the bank.

-LED upgrade for lighting, worth the upgrade? Would you incorporate any old style?

LED lights can be one of the best upgrades especially on a small boat where the weight of extra batteries is not usually a warm and fuzzy option.. Also the less you take out the less the teeny tiny alternator has to put back in.

-Suggestions for electrical connections near tiller? Equipment?

Water proof/resistant 12V outlets or hard wired.

I am pretty handy with electrics in the past. I would love to really have a good electrical schematic planned out before I start (would be great if someone had one)

Draw what you want and let the folks here have a look at it. you'll wind up with a good design in the end.

Any information, direction, book that could be recommended would be great. Schematic picture book works best for me.

The book I recommend most is by Charlie Wing - "Boatowners illustrated Electrical Hand Book Second Edition". Charlie does a great job of explaining things while also following current acceptable marine standards. Not a huge fan of Casey's book but it is a simple one. Calder's is excellent but often goes too deep for beginners...

 

[Technodad]

One large bank hard wired in parallel

I am planing on installing two batteries in my 23, a group 27 and a group 24, both deep cycle. What safety precautions should I take or better yet method of hooking them together, I just can't connect them or there will be a huge current flow until they balanced. Maybe a resister in line to limit current?
I will have one in the rear laz and the other in the front under the starboard V berth to help balance the motor weight.
I have a 9.9 4 stroke (112 lbs yikes!!!) with charging and also a 15 watt solar panel.
I'll be operating an autotiller and a microwave occasionally. All led inside and out.

Thanks
John

 

[JohnSharon]

Maine Sail great reply!

I do believe in keeping it simple. I may still go with the dual battery switch just because it gives options, although i like your idea of just keeping it in the both position to use the whole bank as one battery.

I ordered the book you recommended. I need to build a good reference library. Thanks for the suggestion. Without having the book yet i guess i am not sure what is proper fusing is "close to the battery" I will go with breakers at the switch panel. I will also find an inexpensive digital volt meter wired after the battery selector switch so i can turn it on to check a single battery or both.

I had bought a used Hunter battery selector switch that included a guest selector, 10amp (looks like a fuse) for Bilge Pump and a 50 Amp (fuse?) for Battery



[FONT=&quot]having trouble posting pics i believe i have the back up... I am not sure how they are wiring in battery switch...voltage out through battery fuse? Is this a good panel to use or should i just go with the selector switch?

I really like your idea of solar and need to look into that in more detail.

all helpful suggestions. Also, i looked at your webpage for Compass Marine
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects
and this is a great site!

I really get how bow anchors are dangerous for boats at mooring, especially when weather kicks in. Thank you for the input!

Technodad,

Wow that seems like alot of electrics...how does that work for you?
What type of autotiller are you using?
Microwave seems like incredible draw...any problems with it?

as for balancing batteries, I may not be the expert but i would think as long as they are at the same voltage you would have minimal balancing going on. If one were really discharged then you would but if you charge both and instal with large enough wire, my two cents is that it should be fine. It will be interesting to see what the group says.

this post has been a learning for pics for me...i hope it all made it on

thanks all
John
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