Coosing a boat, need advice!

David in Sandusky · Nov 12, 2011

Size is up to you and your wife

Based on 12 years of cruising Lake Erie, and two 2 month cruises, the Admiral and I would be very comfortable cruising for 4 months on our '77 h27 - we just don't feel the need for more room.

We have chartered 34 to 37 foot boats about 10 times. The forces on lines and other components are much higher (increasing exponentially) on larger boats, so you have to use mechanical assist (winches, or a wheel instead of a tiller.) I don't see a difference in maneuvering around marinas. The biggest issue is that cost goes up with the square of the length, or faster.

Choose the boat that you and your wife like - in you price range, she will be a good old boat. Personally, I prefer the style and sea-kindliness on the older designs.

Good luck - you'll enjoy the journey!

Old Skool Neil · Nov 12, 2011

The bilge keeler requirement will limit your search dramatically and likely eliminate many otherwise worthy prospects. I'd also be sure the rudder isn't deeper than the keels or the perceived grounding advantage is lost.

Depending on how you feel about fate or Karma, sometimes the right boat finds you. Here's my story:

With a background in boats and boatbuilding and after being out of the sport for 15 years while the kids were growing I decided the time had come to jump back in. The budget was low and the skills were high so I knew a fixer was well suited to me. I found a well equipped Ericson 32 that needed repowering on eBay, lost the auction by $100. I looked at boats up and down the coast in my price range that were all total pigs. One had its teak and holly sole saturated with diesel so it squished when you stepped on it, another had its deck painted with pink house paint, the painter kicked over the bucket and the paint ran down the starboard hull, never even wiped it up, that's where it dried. The rest were in similar condition. That's what you get with a ridiculously low budget (a comment on my budget, not yours), total bottom feeders.

Then one midweek afternoon I sauntered into a small brokerage in Redondo Beach to look at a boat that was priced 50% higher than my maximum. She was pretty tired but the electronics and canvas were decent. The broker was running his mouth a mile a minute, "This boat and you are a perfect match, lets go back to my office and fill out an offer sheet, blah, blah, blah." He never gave up. So to get outta there I said fine, I'll fill out an offer sheet while thinking 'you ain't gonna like it.'

The offer was tendered at a third the asking price (it was not a serious offer, more of a shut-the-Hell-up document), the broker called the owner on his cell phone and the deal was struck, I was the accidental new owner of a tired Catalina 30 and now after 6 1/2 years and a full refit I couldn't be happier.

Ctskip · Nov 12, 2011

I would consider what kind of sailing I like, then find a boat designed for that kind of sailing.
I sail for the sake of escaping and the wife likes the dock parties. So we found something with a large cockpit and wide beam. I have found that the older boats (70's) have roomier cockpits than newer ones. Allmand 31 ft, 11 ft beam was what I found and fell for. They seem to me to be more robust in their build, private company and all. I have been aboard many sailboats and find that the room below, as I'm rather large guy, is important to me. The performance of the vessel is secondary. For me , the slower the better. It'll get up to the speed fast enough for me.

Looking here in the states for a twin keel will be difficult and restrict your search tremendously. Good luck on that one. I've seen one in Ct.
I'd be more concerned the depth of the keel and the rudder, sailboats are useless without them. Pay close attention to how it's not only held in place, but hows it's protected and how it works
Then comes the keel. Some boats the keels have fallen off resulting in catastrophes and others have sunk at the dock from loose keel bolts. While others are encapsulated in fiberglass. Some are lead, while others are iron. Myself, I like them long and shallow, 4ft is perfect for the Caribbean waters and the Florida coast line and many coves and rivers, gunkholing they call it..
The part about stepping onboard and knowing, is pretty close to being right. Just like women , you must try many and fall in "love" several times before you find the one for you and settle down.
Look at them all and board as many as you can. You don't seem to care about it's sailing charistics, so handling is no problem. Lay in the bunk, sit at the table and look for comforts like propane stove, large head and nice shower with pressurised water and the holding tanks maybe even a 110/12 volt refrigerator. Solar panels? Charging system and of coarse the motor. Stay away from gasoline motors. Low hour diesel is the way to go there, with a good filter system, maybe even a diesel cabin heater. Air circulation is VERY important.
You will also fine lake kept boats to generally be in better condition than ones kept in salt water. Southern boats take a beating as they are generally kept afloat and used more and the sun does hell on a boat. Bimini's are nice, but have a life span of ten yrs, as do sail covers. Roller furlings are nice also. Be sure the anchoring system is beyond being up to par. Bilge pumps (plural) are necessary. Spare parts are always welcome. Low hours on the motor is a good sign.
Get a professional to survey the vessel and go for the best money can buy once you have found "the one".
Good luck.

Keep it up,
Ctskip

David in Sandusky · Nov 12, 2011

Bilge Boards

I agree that bilge boards are a cool concept. But, because you are severely limiting the boats you will find in the US, I'm asking, "What do they really deliver?" I know that this is a good alternative to anchoring, but lot's of our members anchor "down east", using the right depth and scope to account for big swings of the tide. And anchoring has some advantages over grounding:

The boat faces into the wind, optimizing ventilation on hot summer days.

You can arrive and leave on your own schedule, rather than having to arrive on a high tide, and wait until the next high tide to leave. Add having to leave at the next high tide, since now - you are floating!

You can swim, and dinghy off an anchored boat, while a grounded boat is a long stretch of (often) mud from shore, or water.

Anchoring works down south where tides don't vary much more than a foot or two (my experience is in the keys.)

It's your dream - so feel free to disregard these thoughts. Do listen to your wife, however!

dscribner · Nov 12, 2011

Dutch,

Why shoot for lakes in Maine when Winnipesaukee is a short spit away from you? The only Maine lakes that could support a beast like that are Sebago and Moosehead, for the most part. But with a 35 footer, you won't be trailering anyway. Unless . . . you went for a Hake 32RK. It has a retractable keel and can get into THIN water. Plus, it can be trailered by a gutsy pickup.
It has too much of a "shippy" look for my taste, but I like stripes with plaid, so what do I know?

The boat that you describe with the twin keel is the Westerly Centaur. There's a guy locally that has three at last count. A former coworker of mine drove by them every day and mentioned them several times. If you're interested I can give my friend a call and find out where they are. They're around Portland/Gorham so that's about 1:45 from you.

My dream boat (other than Cheryl Ladd) is a mid to late '80s Catalina 30. You can pick them up for between $20k and $35K, depending on the season. There are several models, one has a short wing keel. It affects performance some but a recreational cruiser probably wouldn't notice.

Let me know if you want me to hunt those Centaurs down for you.

Don

Biddeford

dscribner · Nov 12, 2011

OHHHHhhh! Wrong Gilford! You're up by Dover Foxcroft! Wick'd nice up there. Any snow left from the storm? We still have the occasional clump in the shadows but that's it so far.

If I were to guess, nobody suggested a Beneteau because they didn't think they were in the price range. They strike me as a Cadillac of boats. Not a B'mer or Mercedes, but a Cadillac. Just a perception of mine.

As you're looking at boats, keep in mind the cost of mooring (or a slip), hauling and storage while you're deciding. Obviously I don't know you from Adam or how deep your wallet is. But when we bought our boat we were beyond clueless. It was an absolute blessing that we picked the boat that we did. Had we chosen poorly, we probably wouldn't be sailors now, just broke and disillusioned lubbers! Ours is a Lancer 25. We trailer it and launch it every time we sail. We've gotten pretty good at stepping the mast too.

Let me know about the boats and I'll see what I can do.

Don

mcrow33 · Nov 12, 2011

Good point to remember. Longer the boat bigger the cost for everything. All, most work is charged by the foot. And that would be length over all. That includes moorings, slips, launch, everything.

Sumner · Nov 12, 2011

dutch2004 said:
.... So 30 to 32 big enough or not???

I think only you can answer that. Get on some different boats and look. Ruth and I can spend 2 months on a 26 Mac that you can't stand up in without the pop-top up and don't want to get off. Others would not stay in the boat over a weekend.

Top priority for us is a frig, so we don't have to hunt ice. A toilet system that doesn't require us to hunt a pump-out. Solar power so we don't have to run a gen-set or engine an hour or more a day to collect amps to feed the frig. Anchoring gear that will hold us in about anything anywhere. Good and reliable charting equipment.

Unless you plan on living on the boat tied up at a marina and pluged into shore power I'd for sure plan the above items into the cost equation. We have 200 watts of solar on the Mac and that takes care of over 90% of our electrical needs resulting in only running a gen-set for a couple hours in a couple months. We are installing 480 watts of solar on the Endeavour.

Also factor in bottom paint, possible thru-hulls, running rigging and possible standing rigging if it is old along with some other items that will surely be needed if you plan on having a safe boat to cruise on full time more or less. I'd put $5,000 to $10,000 aside for the above regardless of the initial cost, especially if the boat is going to be an older under $30,000 boat to begin with.

As has been said before the Catalina 30 has a lot to be said for it as something to start with if you are trying to start at under $30,000-$40,000 total cost of purchase and outfitting so that you have a safe boat that is also fun to live on. There again it depends on how much space "you" need on a boat.

The best of luck,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

LuzSD · Nov 13, 2011

Choosing a boat

30 catalina (we have an 88) are wide, and comfortable, fun to sail, seem to have alot of storage and space to put stuff.......you asked a few posts back how people felt about living on different sizes....... and though we don't live aboard, we spend every weekend aboard and feel like we have tons of space... We have a really comfortable V berth, huge sitting area/ double bed space and nice "gararge space" in the aft berth.
My 2 cents about how a Catalina 30 might work for you.......... but you just gotta kiss alot of frogs.

abk · Nov 18, 2011

I do hope you have been able to "coose" wisely. When I was coosing for one myself, I didn't know these forums even existed. I did have a friend who has sailed for years and sought information from him and he also came with me when I narrowed down my cooses to just one boat.

Sorry I couldn't help myself from repeating the typo.. I single hand a lot so take note of how the running rigging is laid out too.

Scott B · Nov 18, 2011

Just like this one ???

European Hunter 33 twin keel

Coosing a boat, need advice!

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