Using the sun to precisly navigate, at night?

RON20406 · Nov 4, 2011

FourPoints, thanks for the very interesting article concerning the Viking sunstone. The Vikings were technologically superior to all maritime cultures during their zenith from the 8th to 10th Centuries A.D. and were the first recorded explorers to visit North America and the New World. The revolutionary design of their vessels, their scientific understanding of navigation and their superior sailing skills were undeniable. I find it curious that History still teaches the historically incorrect version of the discovery of North America/New World in spite of the overwhelmingly historical and archeological evidence to the contrary. I am going to post after this reply an interesting video concerning Viking ships. Lykke til, og god sejler, Rognvald (translation: good luck and good sailing!)

RON20406 · Nov 4, 2011

FourPoints said:
"Fabled Viking 'sunstone' shown to really work"

"These sunstones are mentioned in several contemporary texts, and were said to work even when the sky was completely overcast or the sun was below the horizon - as it is for long periods at such northern latitudes"

http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/59451-fabled-viking-sunstone-shown-to-really-work

http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2011/10/28/rspa.2011.0369.abstract

really interresting how they were able to use these stones to determine the direction of the sun for precise navigation, even in near endlass nights of the polar winters...

Here's the video on Viking ships, Best, Ron

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWU7XwED_yA

Benny17441 · Nov 4, 2011

Perhaps we are talking semantics. Irrespective of the many persons that may have visited the Americas, before Columbus, by the 13th century it was virtually unknown and unrecognized by Europeans. I think Columbus is being credited with the discovery because the effects of his visit still last until today in world society not because he may have gotten there first.

Regarding the stones, I do not think they work at night but perhaps only in overcast days and just before dawn or dusk.

KD3PC · Nov 4, 2011

Benny17441 said:
Perhaps we are talking semantics. Irrespective of the many persons that may have visited the Americas, before Columbus, by the 13th century it was virtually unknown and unrecognized by Europeans. I think Columbus is being credited with the discovery because the effects of his visit still last until today in world society not because he may have gotten there first.

Between the catholic church and the "media" over the years, the truth is of no matter....it would be to "their" detriment for the truth to prevail.

He is credited simply because his media and spin machine was better at it, than the others.

The Europeans were not interested in the truth, as the Dutch and Scandinavians had been coming to the north east part of the continent for decades...

Still, the truth should at least be mentioned in our schools, which it is not, and any other option is "marked wrong"....on our kids tests. Any comment from a kid proud of his heritage, unless one of the PC ones, is summarily dismissed...and will result in his being labeled a trouble maker...just regurgitate the pablum of the day and you will advance to the next grade....

kloudie1 · Nov 4, 2011

Sun Crystal

Here is my sun crystal telling me a fib ! Maybe I ought to learn how to use the de-polarizer.
Chart shows a previous track up the bayou a few weeks ago.. over to the west is the boat showing where Mr. Garmin assumed I was.. I was actually in the middle of the bayou on the right side.. Interesting.. When I am 10 miles west of this position, the world agrees with the Garmin.. Interesting

Ross · Nov 4, 2011

The Dutch and the Scandinavians came as visitors and then went home the rest of them came as illegal immigrants.

RON20406 · Nov 4, 2011

Benny17441 said:
Perhaps we are talking semantics. Irrespective of the many persons that may have visited the Americas, before Columbus, by the 13th century it was virtually unknown and unrecognized by Europeans. I think Columbus is being credited with the discovery because the effects of his visit still last until today in world society not because he may have gotten there first.

Regarding the stones, I do not think they work at night but perhaps only in overcast days and just before dawn or dusk.

Benny, when you say that until the 13th Century the Americas "was virtually unknown and unrecognized by Europeans" how then would you describe the Vikings who were Swedish, Norweigan and Danish if not Europeans? Best, Ron

RON20406 · Nov 4, 2011

kd3pc said:
Between the catholic church and the "media" over the years, the truth is of no matter....it would be to "their" detriment for the truth to prevail.

He is credited simply because his media and spin machine was better at it, than the others.

The Europeans were not interested in the truth, as the Dutch and Scandinavians had been coming to the north east part of the continent for decades...

Still, the truth should at least be mentioned in our schools, which it is not, and any other option is "marked wrong"....on our kids tests. Any comment from a kid proud of his heritage, unless one of the PC ones, is summarily dismissed...and will result in his being labeled a trouble maker...just regurgitate the pablum of the day and you will advance to the next grade....

Well said and exactly correct! It is part of the systematic deconstruction of Western Values and America. Best, Ron

Benny17441 · Nov 4, 2011

Ron I never said they werent Europeans but I think that you may be presupposing that the average 13th century Scandinavian was fully aware of this land their ancestors had visited in the past. It is amazing that they being so skilled seaman would let the Spaniards and Italians get ahead of them if they had recognized the value, having had such information first hand.

Someone defined history as a consensus of opinions, about events, that have survived to the present. There is no absolute truth, truth is a moving target so accounts of past events are merely opinions filtered down from the original observers. I firmly believe that many people visited the land that we know as America before Columbus did. I believed that by hanging around shipping ports he heard stories about distant lands due East. His only genious may have been knowing how to profit from this information by selling a sailing project to the Kings of Spain. He probably knew this land was not China but he had a selling job to do and the Kings would not have probably been impressed had he offered anything less than access to then known riches of China. I don't think Columbus was the least bit interested in what people may say about him 400+ years latter. I don't know what kids today in school are taught but in my day I was taught the simplified version of events indicating Columbus was the first to set foot in the Americas. I can only blame the School District for the curriculum that was given and I do not think their reasons came as a result of a plot to change the course of history. As a matter of fact back then I could have cared less who the discoveror was. If you think your version of past events is the correct one by all means continue to fight for your beliefs; it will contribute to the pool of opinions which will define history in the future.

Kermit · Nov 4, 2011

Benny17441 said:
I don't think Columbus was the least bit interested in what people may say about him 400+ years latter.

And Martha Washington said, "George, would you please make up your mind where we're staying tonight? Do you really think that 200 years from now anyone will care where you slept?

kloudie1 · Nov 4, 2011

Yeah, I think Columbus heard about the good rum on heading of...and so many days.. being tired of all that wine, he decided to head over to the islands that he probably knew to not be China.. I dunno..

KD3PC · Nov 4, 2011

Benny17441 said:
His only genious may have been knowing how to profit from this information by selling a sailing project to the Kings of Spain. He probably knew this land was not China but he had a selling job to do and the Kings would not have probably been impressed had he offered anything less than access to then known riches of China.

Not being a spaniard himself, I think you will find, should you read up on him, that he cozied up to Queen Isabella - who by all accounts wore the pants and paid the bills in her family. Not the king(s)...

Like many entrepreneurs, he was in the right place at the right time, and made a few good decisions. His crew definitely thought differently but held their tongues, for fear of the alternatives.

In reading Columbus' writings you will find a very insecure, naive person striving to find his place in a world where he was not wanted.

Would be good to be able to time travel back and see more.

Benny17441 · Nov 4, 2011

Guys we are having a serious discussion here. George was no sailor, he only crossed a river in row boat.

AtlanticAl · Nov 4, 2011

The sun stones were magnetic rock that when held up with a little piece of twine, the stone always hung in the same position, that is how the vikings were able to navigate it was the GPS of the tenth century. It gave them the edge, ideal for running across the north sea, and attacking england, not so good for world wide ocean travel, but with the various hops, from scandanavia, to shetland, shetland to the pharo island, pharo to iceland, iceland to greenland, greenland to cananda, would be strange if they hadnt made it all the way to the american continent.

RON20406 · Nov 4, 2011

Benny17441 said:
Ron I never said they werent Europeans but I think that you may be presupposing that the average 13th century Scandinavian was fully aware of this land their ancestors had visited in the past. It is amazing that they being so skilled seaman would let the Spaniards and Italians get ahead of them if they had recognized the value, having had such information first hand.

Someone defined history as a consensus of opinions, about events, that have survived to the present. There is no absolute truth, truth is a moving target so accounts of past events are merely opinions filtered down from the original observers. I firmly believe that many people visited the land that we know as America before Columbus did. I believed that by hanging around shipping ports he heard stories about distant lands due East. His only genious may have been knowing how to profit from this information by selling a sailing project to the Kings of Spain. He probably knew this land was not China but he had a selling job to do and the Kings would not have probably been impressed had he offered anything less than access to then known riches of China. I don't think Columbus was the least bit interested in what people may say about him 400+ years latter. I don't know what kids today in school are taught but in my day I was taught the simplified version of events indicating Columbus was the first to set foot in the Americas. I can only blame the School District for the curriculum that was given and I do not think their reasons came as a result of a plot to change the course of history. As a matter of fact back then I could have cared less who the discoveror was. If you think your version of past events is the correct one by all means continue to fight for your beliefs; it will contribute to the pool of opinions which will define history in the future.

Benny, historically the Vikings did reach the new world before Columbus. This is fact, not conjecture. Secondly, why do you think the 13th century Norse did not know about the new lands? The viking sagas are resplendent with these stories and accounts that passed historical knowledge from one generation to the next. The specific source to future generations is Erik's Saga which details the discovery of the New World. Thirdly, I still don't understand what you mean when you say that the Spanish and Italians were there "ahead of them." They were not. Period. This is why it is so absurd to continue the Columbus myth that is factually incorrect. If History is malleable to political and social considerations, then it has no validity. Let's hope that day never arrives or Civilization as we know it is doomed and History become the plaything of sophists and dictators Best, Ron

AtlanticAl · Nov 4, 2011

The pen is mightier than the sword, and history belongs to the person who writes it, the vikings like the celts didnt have the written word, the recited history to each other, which eventually becomes folklore, by the time of columbus, the spanish had written history, so they documented it, had the spanish writing, a british captain would have found the usa, may have even went there through hearing about columbus, but, the brit would have been put down as the disoverer.

JohnS · Nov 4, 2011

rognvald said:
The Vikings were technologically superior to all maritime cultures during their zenith from the 8th to 10th Centuries A.D. and were the first recorded explorers to visit North America and the New World. The revolutionary design of their vessels, their scientific understanding of navigation and their superior sailing skills were undeniable.

Certainly superior to all they came in contact with, but were they superior to the Pacific Islanders?

Using the sun to precisly navigate, at night?

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