I just purchased a beautiful 1976 Catalina 30 Tall Rig and am not sure at what wind speed to think about reefing the main. The Jenny is a 130 on roller furling that is hanked on. Any help would be much appreciated.
Reefing a Catalina 30 "Tall Rig"
- Thread starter Dana Point Steve
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Congrats on the boat! You will love it - I have a '93. As Stu says, 15kts or above is a good general rule. I tend to reef early and shake out when comfortable. Also depends what crew I have on board, but in my experience, the boat sails best more upright. Rail in the water may be fun, but not the most efficient.
I concur. 12 knots is ideal sailing. 15 knots you are already reefed. It also depends on the size of the headsail. I am going to go down to a 135% eventually because my 155% makes me get overpowered easily.
Thanks all for your quick response. I had a Catalina 27 previously and I was reefing the main at around 12 knots. I guess with so much more sail area it ends up being about the same wind speed. Good sailing!
I finally started experimenting with my reefing point Saturday with the 20kt winds, and glad I did early with all the gusts. Finally understand what some of the extra hardware on the boom was for.
I have a boom rigged to do a double reef but only reef point in my main. In my opinion the person who ordered the main originally was stupid for not having two reef points in the sail. The Tall Rig needs to have the two reef points.
Now I am at the part where I want a second reef point but I don't want to have it added to an old sail that I will probably replace in the future (maybe near future).
One other suggestion. Depending on the age of your main I would keep a few spare slugs in your boat. I have snapped a few of them already and now I keep some slugs that are all ready to be sewn back into the sail.
Now I am at the part where I want a second reef point but I don't want to have it added to an old sail that I will probably replace in the future (maybe near future).
One other suggestion. Depending on the age of your main I would keep a few spare slugs in your boat. I have snapped a few of them already and now I keep some slugs that are all ready to be sewn back into the sail.
Does anyone have a picture of their reefing setup? I have a 1980 Catalina 30' Tall Rig and the PO seems to have installed a number of turning blocks on the boom to accomodate for reefing. Any pics or diagrams of your setup would be appreciated.
Try the manuals on the left side of this:
http://www.catalina30.com/TechLib/technical.htm
Almost all Catalina one design boats have active and very helpful Associations. Get familiar with yours.
http://www.catalina30.com/TechLib/technical.htm
Almost all Catalina one design boats have active and very helpful Associations. Get familiar with yours.
Igor, here are some pics from MADLEE. I ran out of line, so I only have a single reef on the leech. I used most of the 5/16" I had on the luff end and I set up the two reefs there. I tied the "middle" of the line onto the sail, near the tack and ran each of the two tails separately up to the luff reef cringles and then back down. I used a double sheave block to turn the lines aft to one of the port side boom cleats (the other port cleat I use for the boom topping lift). I do need to buy more line for the second boom block. Those pull the foot of the sail back tight and help give a decent sail shape when you reef. I also feel I need to add a another starboard boom cleat, but for now I use just the one cleat for both leech reefs.
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No offence...... but I would rather see the reefing tack line pulling forward by attaching a cheek block or fairlead on the mast... otherwise a simple reefing horn at the boom will be much easier... since you're standing there to reef anyway. You want both lines cleated near where you'll stand at the mast...the clew well forward on the boom, the tack... right on the mast, where you can easily pull down. Currently, you have the tackline running back on the boom, which calls for a somewhat awkward position away from the safety of the mast area.
While we're at it.... I'd move the clew block back to the next hole, too. you want more backwards pull....45 degrees would be ideal... the same for the tack.. 45 degrees.
If you wanted the reef lines led aft, use the double block on the gooseneck to bring the both #1 and #2 clew lines down to a double turning block on deck.... then aft to the cockpit. #1 reefing tack line on one side of the mast, #2 on the other, down to the deck.... the back.
Joe, thanks for your analysis. I am going to move those boom blocks back one hole to get a better angle on the clew reefs. And I do have the single mast cleats on each side of the mast, as in the third picture, that I should use for the tack reefs. That would be a pull, straight down and tie off. My boom cleats are close together and within arms reach of the mast, but I like your way (and Catalina's) better than mine. I see your point about using the double turning block low on the mast and bringing the reef lines back to the cockpit, but I think I will have to add two stoppers on the cabintop to do that. I don't have any cleats up there right now.
Does anyone have any experience using a single line reef that controls both the tack end and the clew end? Are mini blocks at the cringles necessary?
Does anyone have any experience using a single line reef that controls both the tack end and the clew end? Are mini blocks at the cringles necessary?
RBM, where is your halyard? Mine is on the mast, so I have a simple tack hook for my luff side of the reef. The clew is rigged on the boom, the cleat about 18" from the mast...It would be nice if it ran to the deck with a nice winch to really haul it tight (& have a nice flat sail), but it works OK where it is. I can do the whole reef with my harness tether clipped to the vang tang.
There is so much 'extra' line with it running to the tack & clew. I see you the line running thru the cringles at the luff & clew, but that adds a LOT of friction. Only doing it once (at the clew) is enough for me...however, with the sheet/vang/halyard loose, the friction should be minimized.
Checking your set up I wonder if you can get the luff tight enough with it currently 'dead ending' at the cunningham cringle? what about going all the way to the gooseneck? Agree about moving the clew block aft a little. Mine isn't quite where I want it either, but is drilled & tapped into the mast (no track). I also don't like those flimsy welded tabs on those blocks..the only fix is to cut a slit in the foot of the sail so you can wrap the clew end tail all the way around the boom. (make sure your new sail has a loose foot!):dance:
Sorry I don't have any pics of my set up...My boat had an undersized block riveted to the mast & I replaced it with a nice shiny Garhauer cheek block. I only have one reef as well, and it is fine for me. If I get in that much wind on the Chesapeake, the main should be down and a storm jib up (which I don't have either.)
My $0.015
There is so much 'extra' line with it running to the tack & clew. I see you the line running thru the cringles at the luff & clew, but that adds a LOT of friction. Only doing it once (at the clew) is enough for me...however, with the sheet/vang/halyard loose, the friction should be minimized.
Checking your set up I wonder if you can get the luff tight enough with it currently 'dead ending' at the cunningham cringle? what about going all the way to the gooseneck? Agree about moving the clew block aft a little. Mine isn't quite where I want it either, but is drilled & tapped into the mast (no track). I also don't like those flimsy welded tabs on those blocks..the only fix is to cut a slit in the foot of the sail so you can wrap the clew end tail all the way around the boom. (make sure your new sail has a loose foot!):dance:
Sorry I don't have any pics of my set up...My boat had an undersized block riveted to the mast & I replaced it with a nice shiny Garhauer cheek block. I only have one reef as well, and it is fine for me. If I get in that much wind on the Chesapeake, the main should be down and a storm jib up (which I don't have either.)
My $0.015
As always, I highly regard your one and a half "sense", Shawn. I didn't know that was the cunningham cringle! I do need to secure the luff/tack reef line down to the gooseneck or lower down to the padeye on the track there. You're right, the luff reef doesn't get tight enough.
Anyway..., my main is setup for two levels of reefing. Currently, it is a (double) two-line strategy and I know what you mean about all the extra line! Without a hook, I thought my setup required that the tack reef needed to go to the (other) boom cleat like the clew reef does, but I will now use the mast cleats for the tack reefs, instead. Joe's right, it's kind of awkward to tie them off on the other side of the boom, like presently configured.
On the other hand, I'd really like to try two separate single-line reef setups by using the double block differently and not use the boom cleats for the clew reefs, at all. To ease the friction, I think I need some of those small carbo soft loop blocks on the cringles. Four of them would do the two levels of reefing that the main is set up for. I would still use the two single mast cleats to tie each one of them off, for now. It may be a lot for each single line to do, but it's only two lines total, instead of four. Head to wind, feathering the main, using cringle blocks, single-lines might be doable with light loading?
The halyard is internal that exits the mast base and runs back thru the starboard deck organizer and then to a single stopper on the starboard cabintop, next to the halyard/ mainsheet winch. One day, I'll go for the quad deck organizer, extend the reefs to the cockpit and add two more stoppers. The single line setups I'm thinking about gets me towards cockpit reefing.
Rob
I do need to secure the luff/tack reef line down to the gooseneck or lower down to the padeye on the track there. You're right, the luff reef doesn't get tight enough. Anyway...
, my main is setup for two levels of reefing. Currently, it is a (double) two-line strategy and I know what you mean about all the extra line! Without a hook, I thought my setup required that the tack reef needed to go to the (other) boom cleat like the clew reef does, but I will now use the mast cleats for the tack reefs, instead. Joe's right, it's kind of awkward to tie them off on the other side of the boom, like presently configured.On the other hand, I'd really like to try two separate single-line reef setups by using the double block differently and not use the boom cleats for the clew reefs, at all. To ease the friction, I think I need some of those small carbo soft loop blocks on the cringles. Four of them would do the two levels of reefing that the main is set up for. I would still use the two single mast cleats to tie each one of them off, for now. It may be a lot for each single line to do, but it's only two lines total, instead of four. Head to wind, feathering the main, using cringle blocks, single-lines might be doable with light loading?
The halyard is internal that exits the mast base and runs back thru the starboard deck organizer and then to a single stopper on the starboard cabintop, next to the halyard/ mainsheet winch. One day, I'll go for the quad deck organizer, extend the reefs to the cockpit and add two more stoppers. The single line setups I'm thinking about gets me towards cockpit reefing.
Rob
When we chartered a big huge catamaran in the islands, it had blocks at the clew & luff (single line system). I cannot recall off the top of my head how they were "attached" to the sail, but instead of cringles or pressed rings, the blocks may have been sewn directly to the sail with webbing. Still a lot of flogging hardware on a smaller boat though..I'd worry about getting beaned in the head..You needed a ladder to reach the boom on this cat..no chance of getting whacked with a flailing block.
my 1977 boat (and 1977 sail when I still had it) had a cunningham cringle AND the boom gooseneck on the track. - The P.O. pinned the gooseneck with a bolt (which is just fine with me..no crashing boom!), so the track is no longer being used. Looking at the style of reinforcement patches on your sail, it looks similar (i.e. stock Catalina/Odyssey issue sail.) My new sail doesn't have a cunningham ring (I never rigged the old one), but since it is a cruising boat, I pretend I don't see that the luff needs tension adjustment, or if it is bad enough, I just go adjust the halyard at the mast. For reefing, Quantum built in a little 'hand hold' into the web ring, so I can pull down with one hand and hook the ring over the reef hook with the other. Tighten the halyard back up, pull in the clew line & done!..again, since my halyard is at the mast, & my reef line is on the boom (similar location to those cleats on your boom) all this work is done there.
Um..I am trying to think where I got my tack hook..I had one of those big curly Q type ones on there that I replaced with something less obnoxious after it broke..mine is a pretty simple set up & simply bolted to the gooseneck. I'll see if I can find an example...try searching for "reefing hook" at Defender...they have a few different ideas.
For your setup..I like Joe's idea too..you must have foot tension (& luff tension via the halyard once tack is secured) to have any decent (flat) sail shape. Reefing into a big sloppy, baggy mess almost defeats the purpose. Having some way to pull the tack for the reef forward (i.e. down to the mast) and doing the same at the clew by moving the block aft should help immensely.
Making these modifications & testing them at the dock on a sunny 75 degree day with no wind is also a good idea. Trying to figure it out when heeling 30 degrees in a cold wet 25 knots sucks.
Edit - OK, looking at your set up again...you could simply take the current 'dead-end' at the cunningham and move it down to the tack ring/cringleor some other solid piece of the gooseneck. Problem #1 solved.
2nd problem: For fun (i.e. at the dock) you could relocate the current 'tack blocks' to the mast cleats..i.e., use the cleat as a padeye. This should allow you to get enough forward tension on the tack ring for the reef. If this proves to work, a permanent pad-eye could be added on each side of the mast for each block, (low enough to allow for the space the block takes up & still get the tack ring down enough) or you could simply continue to use the cleat(s) as a pad-eye and lash with something small & strong like spectra. I'd try something easy like a sail tie for the experiment.
So..now I need some help figuring out how the lines run..if you have a dead-end at the clew(on the block pad-eye thing) and a dead-end at the tack, do you have two separate lines for each reef (i.e. total of 4?) Maybe three since you seem to dead-end the luff reef lines in the middle at the cunningham. Damn, I am confusing myself now.. I have some ideas, but I need more pics, or a diagram or something.
my 1977 boat (and 1977 sail when I still had it) had a cunningham cringle AND the boom gooseneck on the track.
- The P.O. pinned the gooseneck with a bolt (which is just fine with me..no crashing boom!), so the track is no longer being used. Looking at the style of reinforcement patches on your sail, it looks similar (i.e. stock Catalina/Odyssey issue sail.) My new sail doesn't have a cunningham ring (I never rigged the old one), but since it is a cruising boat, I pretend I don't see that the luff needs tension adjustment, or if it is bad enough, I just go adjust the halyard at the mast. For reefing, Quantum built in a little 'hand hold' into the web ring, so I can pull down with one hand and hook the ring over the reef hook with the other. Tighten the halyard back up, pull in the clew line & done!..again, since my halyard is at the mast, & my reef line is on the boom (similar location to those cleats on your boom) all this work is done there.Um..I am trying to think where I got my tack hook..I had one of those big curly Q type ones on there that I replaced with something less obnoxious after it broke..mine is a pretty simple set up & simply bolted to the gooseneck. I'll see if I can find an example...try searching for "reefing hook" at Defender...they have a few different ideas.
For your setup..I like Joe's idea too..you must have foot tension (& luff tension via the halyard once tack is secured) to have any decent (flat) sail shape. Reefing into a big sloppy, baggy mess almost defeats the purpose. Having some way to pull the tack for the reef forward (i.e. down to the mast) and doing the same at the clew by moving the block aft should help immensely.
Making these modifications & testing them at the dock on a sunny 75 degree day with no wind is also a good idea. Trying to figure it out when heeling 30 degrees in a cold wet 25 knots sucks.
Edit - OK, looking at your set up again...you could simply take the current 'dead-end' at the cunningham and move it down to the tack ring/cringleor some other solid piece of the gooseneck. Problem #1 solved.
2nd problem: For fun (i.e. at the dock) you could relocate the current 'tack blocks' to the mast cleats..i.e., use the cleat as a padeye. This should allow you to get enough forward tension on the tack ring for the reef. If this proves to work, a permanent pad-eye could be added on each side of the mast for each block, (low enough to allow for the space the block takes up & still get the tack ring down enough) or you could simply continue to use the cleat(s) as a pad-eye and lash with something small & strong like spectra. I'd try something easy like a sail tie for the experiment.
So..now I need some help figuring out how the lines run..if you have a dead-end at the clew(on the block pad-eye thing) and a dead-end at the tack, do you have two separate lines for each reef (i.e. total of 4?) Maybe three since you seem to dead-end the luff reef lines in the middle at the cunningham. Damn, I am confusing myself now..
I have some ideas, but I need more pics, or a diagram or something.OK..I think I got it.
I am ready for another idea...hence a new post. Do you have a cleat on both sides just below the gooseneck as the stbd view pic shows?
This will result in a single line reef for each reef and they will be independent of each other.
Dead-end at clew boom block as now...up thru clew, down thru boom block & head forward to 'tack' block. Reef line then runs up to the tack ring and thru and down the other (port) side of the sail & reef tail terminates at a cleat on mast just below gooseneck. If you wanted to run them aft to the cockpit, you'd simply need another block at the gooseneck area or attached to aforementioned mast pad-eye, (or one of Joe's suggestions) to provide forward luff tension and a fairlead as the line continued to the deck & aft to winch/clutch, etc.
Repeat for 2nd reef...both reef lines run along the boom & up the sail on stbd side, and tails come down on port side of mast to a cleat, or fairlead on teh port side to continue to deck/cockpit. Probably need to add a cleat or two on the port side of the mast below the boom..the location of the one on the stbd. looks good!
edit - so was there a problem we were trying to solve here? - Guess I need to go read the whole thread.
By the way - the OP was asking about when to reef. When I have the traveler down all the way and I am still overpowered, I probably should have reefed about 2 or 3 knots of wind ago. however, the C-30 is stiff enough you can sail a long time with a big genoa and reefed main. I swear I saw the little jib about 8-10 times my entire life growing up on the boat.
I am ready for another idea...hence a new post. Do you have a cleat on both sides just below the gooseneck as the stbd view pic shows?
This will result in a single line reef for each reef and they will be independent of each other.
Dead-end at clew boom block as now...up thru clew, down thru boom block & head forward to 'tack' block. Reef line then runs up to the tack ring and thru and down the other (port) side of the sail & reef tail terminates at a cleat on mast just below gooseneck. If you wanted to run them aft to the cockpit, you'd simply need another block at the gooseneck area or attached to aforementioned mast pad-eye, (or one of Joe's suggestions) to provide forward luff tension and a fairlead as the line continued to the deck & aft to winch/clutch, etc.
Repeat for 2nd reef...both reef lines run along the boom & up the sail on stbd side, and tails come down on port side of mast to a cleat, or fairlead on teh port side to continue to deck/cockpit. Probably need to add a cleat or two on the port side of the mast below the boom..the location of the one on the stbd. looks good!
edit - so was there a problem we were trying to solve here?
- Guess I need to go read the whole thread. By the way - the OP was asking about when to reef. When I have the traveler down all the way and I am still overpowered, I probably should have reefed about 2 or 3 knots of wind ago. however, the C-30 is stiff enough you can sail a long time with a big genoa and reefed main. I swear I saw the little jib about 8-10 times my entire life growing up on the boat.
Tomorrow and Sunday are looking GREAT!
http://www.sailflow.com/windandwhere.iws?regionID=108&siteID=6076&Isection=Forecast+Graphs
"Trying to figure it out when heeling 30 degrees in a cold wet 25 knots sucks." hee, +10, bro. I can tell you, at least it wasn't cold, but I did have guests on board...:naughty:
For this weekend, I'm keeping the two-line setup. First, I'll not use the turning double block to bring the ends aft to the portside boom cleat. I won't use the double block at all. Instead, the 1st tack reef will pull straight down (and slightly forward) to the starboard mast cleat. The 2nd tack reef will also pull straight down, but go to the portside mast cleat. I will re-attach the secured end of those tack reefs to the gooseneck area instead of at the cunningham cringle. The lines will go up, thru each cringle and back down to the mast cleats.
The clew reefs will pull aft to the boom cheek blocks and then go forward to the boom cleats like yours. I just need to add the second clew reef line and route it thru, then I should be ready.
Only one reef on your main? What size is your headsail? When do you reef that? You have offensive lineman on the rail? Newbies ask too many questions? Seriously, Thanks.
Rob
http://www.sailflow.com/windandwhere.iws?regionID=108&siteID=6076&Isection=Forecast+Graphs
"Trying to figure it out when heeling 30 degrees in a cold wet 25 knots sucks." hee, +10, bro. I can tell you, at least it wasn't cold, but I did have guests on board...:naughty:
For this weekend, I'm keeping the two-line setup. First, I'll not use the turning double block to bring the ends aft to the portside boom cleat. I won't use the double block at all. Instead, the 1st tack reef will pull straight down (and slightly forward) to the starboard mast cleat. The 2nd tack reef will also pull straight down, but go to the portside mast cleat. I will re-attach the secured end of those tack reefs to the gooseneck area instead of at the cunningham cringle. The lines will go up, thru each cringle and back down to the mast cleats.
The clew reefs will pull aft to the boom cheek blocks and then go forward to the boom cleats like yours. I just need to add the second clew reef line and route it thru, then I should be ready.
Only one reef on your main? What size is your headsail? When do you reef that? You have offensive lineman on the rail? Newbies ask too many questions?
Seriously, Thanks.Rob
Rob, It is a 155% genoa on hanks, so no reefing for that. The 'little' jib is about 110% (have not measured it) - it is the original "working jib" from Odyssey/Catalina sails, circa 1977, about 85% hoist. I wish I had lineman on the rail..in cruising configuration on this boat, so just me and the wife!
I tend to be a little bit conservative though, so I'll go with the smaller jib and keep the full main, knowing I can still reef if it gets breezier. The smaller head sail is a little easier to manage than the big 155% if it is on the edge. Then the next step is to lose the main all together & go jib only.
I live on the Chesapeake & my sailmaker and I discussed it and we decided only one reef. There was only one time I've been out when I wished I had a 2nd reef (not on this boat) and we still survived with just one..I had put the boat in a bad spot (lee shore, & a summer squall blew thru) and we had to claw off a lee shore with 45+ knots in our face. (- edit, since you are also Chesapeake...we were heading north to Oxford, and passing James Island as close as possible to cut the distance. A storm blew across the Bay west to east and tried to pin us on James Island..) A 2nd reef might have made it a little easier to actually try to sail into it, or if I'd had time to rig the storm jib I would have had that up. At any rate, some lessons learned, but personally, I don't see a reason to have all the extra weight from a 2nd reef distorting the sail in my local area. I'll stay at the marina and wait another day.
We were out this weekend, but just motorsailed with the mainsail up to a friend's house. The old Atomic4 ran great in tight quarters and bad weather. The mainsail helped to stabilize the beam on winds and keep our speed up.
I like the modifications you are planning...let us know how it went!
-Shawn
I tend to be a little bit conservative though, so I'll go with the smaller jib and keep the full main, knowing I can still reef if it gets breezier. The smaller head sail is a little easier to manage than the big 155% if it is on the edge. Then the next step is to lose the main all together & go jib only.
I live on the Chesapeake & my sailmaker and I discussed it and we decided only one reef. There was only one time I've been out when I wished I had a 2nd reef (not on this boat) and we still survived with just one..I had put the boat in a bad spot (lee shore, & a summer squall blew thru) and we had to claw off a lee shore with 45+ knots in our face. (- edit, since you are also Chesapeake...we were heading north to Oxford, and passing James Island as close as possible to cut the distance. A storm blew across the Bay west to east and tried to pin us on James Island..) A 2nd reef might have made it a little easier to actually try to sail into it, or if I'd had time to rig the storm jib I would have had that up. At any rate, some lessons learned, but personally, I don't see a reason to have all the extra weight from a 2nd reef distorting the sail in my local area. I'll stay at the marina and wait another day.
We were out this weekend, but just motorsailed with the mainsail up to a friend's house. The old Atomic4 ran great in tight quarters and bad weather. The mainsail helped to stabilize the beam on winds and keep our speed up.
I like the modifications you are planning...let us know how it went!
-Shawn
When I reef: When the boat is heeling to the point where it slows down. Some think it's lots of fun dragging the rail, but by that time you are going slower than you could be. A little flatter is usually faster. Also, when I see a giant flock of seagulls coming across the water towards me, only close examination reveals they ain't seagulls. Also, at night, regardless of weather.
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