house bank/dedicated start bat confusion

[sailormanbigd]

morning y'all, been reading NIgel Calder's boatowners mech and elect manual this am and my head is spinning. I want to figure out my battery configuration, charge options and equiptment and such. What with all the different info provided I am soooo perplexed. Just when i think I've found the "best" for my application Nigel throws in a caveat. ie, blocking diode for cuircut protection but there is a voltage drop of 0.6 to 1 volt though diode which may cause voltage reg to chronicllly undercharge bats and shorten bat life. Just when i thought all i had to get was a diode!
So, what equipt would you all reccomend for a moderately conservative 33ft cruising sailboat without plugging in to shorepower at regular intervals. "modest" would be coldplate refrigeration, led cabin and nav lights, 3 or 4 low watt cabin fans, and gps, computer laptop, stereo -music running almost continuosly, microwave, etc. I have alot of available space to place bat banks. I know that i am supposed to calculate daily amp usage and intervals between charging/running engine then size bank to that, then size alt. to that something like 25 % of capacity...... isn't there a good guess availible that would cover a modest 33ft sailboat. Like 2) 200ah banks for starting and house loads with multi step regulator, shunt, 2 80watt solar panels, stock 60 amp internally regulated alt plus high
output alt, kiss wind gen for cloudy days, blah blah.or 1 400ah bank . My head is still swimming. so, any suggestions for a good solid dc package that will meet my needs?

 

[Maine Sail]

morning y'all, been reading NIgel Calder's boatowners mech and elect manual this am and my head is spinning. I want to figure out my battery configuration, charge options and equiptment and such. What with all the different info provided I am soooo perplexed. Just when i think I've found the "best" for my application Nigel throws in a caveat. ie, blocking diode for cuircut protection but there is a voltage drop of 0.6 to 1 volt though diode which may cause voltage reg to chronicllly undercharge bats and shorten bat life. Just when i thought all i had to get was a diode!
So, what equipt would you all reccomend for a moderately conservative 33ft cruising sailboat without plugging in to shorepower at regular intervals. "modest" would be coldplate refrigeration, led cabin and nav lights, 3 or 4 low watt cabin fans, and gps, computer laptop, stereo -music running almost continuosly, microwave, etc. I have alot of available space to place bat banks. I know that i am supposed to calculate daily amp usage and intervals between charging/running engine then size bank to that, then size alt. to that something like 25 % of capacity...... isn't there a good guess availible that would cover a modest 33ft sailboat. Like 2) 200ah banks for starting and house loads with multi step regulator, shunt, 2 80watt solar panels, stock 60 amp internally regulated alt plus high
output alt, kiss wind gen for cloudy days, blah blah.or 1 400ah bank . My head is still swimming. so, any suggestions for a good solid dc package that will meet my needs?

You basically have the same system as we do;

We have:

80W Solar panel & regulator
50 Amp stock dumb regulated alternator (Mitsubishi)
Blue Seas ACR Combining Relay
375 Ah House Bank
Reserve Battery
Battery Monitor
1/2/BOTH/OFF switch
Alternator & solar fed directly to house bank ACR does the rest
Sea Frost engien driven refrigeration

Banks is sized so we rarely draw her below 70% state of charge..

BTW this boat was cruised in this basic configuration as a 24/7 liveaboard for five straight years with zero issues...

When we use the boat only position #1/House Bank is ever used. When we leave the boat the switch is flipped off. Simple, easy and inexpensive.

 

[sailormanbigd]

thanks Maine

this is exactly the reply i was looking for! I will be having 1 boat unit $ a month availible soon and want to make a list of purchases. I want to start with all solid equiptment and systems to fit my eventual needs-cruising full time. I feel engine and dc supply are #1 on the list, engine is going to be gone thru by my youngest son at his marine mechanic vocational school, then the battery/charging system. Then water, cooking, etc. you might remember the "free boat" post a while ago. I have been economically challenged these past months and am soon to be less challenged. I am very glad you responded, suprised though, are'nt you cruising just now? Must be you are tied to a dock somewhere using wiifi and the martini grill, lol. Thanks again for the specs, want a trip to clearwater this winter for install? I think i can do it myself-need to so I am proficient at my boat maintainence regime tho.

 

[sailormanbigd]

and.....

hey Maine, did'nt i read a post that you use your house bank for starting and one of those emergency jump start devices for back-up/start bnk? How many times do you have to use the jump start equipt, will it hold a charge for extended period without charging or so you use a small solar panel????? thanks

 

[Maine Sail]

I am very glad you responded, suprised though, are'nt you cruising just now? Must be you are tied to a dock somewhere using wiifi and the martini grill, lol. Thanks again for the specs, want a trip to clearwater this winter for install? I think i can do it myself-need to so I am proficient at my boat maintainence regime tho.

Yes I am on the boat but do have an android and Verizon 3G broadband...

 

[sailaway78]

What I have

I have a 300 watt solar array, and a 400 watt wind gen. ( Air X ) Alternator is a 70 amp dumb Hitachi. My idea was to not have to run the engine for basic battery charging. I have the usual cruising stuff. Fridge, lights, stereo, gps etc. A 450 AH battery bank. All charging circuits go through the batt switch. 1-2-both-off. Normally everything stays on 2 ( house ) and engine is also started from house bank. The start batt is a group 29. For me this is a simple and easy to use system. Should both banks get low, switching to 1 will allow solar or wind to charge it up to starting voltage pretty quick. Have never needed to do this, and house bank rarely gets below 80%. My only planned addition is one of the filling devices sold by motor home stores, that allows batt filling with just a squeeze bulb.

 

[Stu Jackson]

The basic setup that Maine Sail and you have described is pretty simple and usable. Many of us have been promoting it for years. Read more about it here, from my "Electrical 101," and Reply #1 sums it up pretty well. Solar is just an adder to the basic system. Properly wired, the basic 1-2-B switch is a very handy tool.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4949.msg30170.html#msg30170

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5977.0.html (many of the links come back to Maine Sail's and my posts here on this forum.

 

[sailaway78]

what I like

Is the simplicity, low cost and low maintenance. It serves it's purpose well. One of my main concerns is simplicity. Usually when I go out and about, I am gone for several weeks. Mostly to places where parts and pieces are not readily available. Basic simplicity is my watchword.

 

[Don12364]

I have the same setup as Maine except that the builder put two simple On-Off battery isolator switches, one for house and one for engine batteries instead of the Off-1-Both-2 switch.
Hunters must have realised I couldn't be trusted not get muddled over which battery to use. I'm grateful.
For info I am still on my original Delphi Freedom engine battery (16 seasons) and my 4 battery house bank is only 10 years old. All are normal wet cells, so called maintenance free, i.e. VRLA.
I only have 20 watts of solar and no reserve battery either.
And I have every imaginable electrical and electronic gadget on board too.

My boat lives on a mid stream mooring and rarely sees a marina but we only run the fridge when on board.

 

[sailormanbigd]

ok, some more info please

ok Maine, hope you are enjoying your sail/trip. Now down to the nitty, gritty. Thanks everyone for the reply, simplicity is my "maine" consideration. As I am getting older and -no not wiser- i forget things from time to time. The book talks about idiot proofing the system, and reduced risk of failure is also a big concern. I have a poer boat with the I, II Or both switch on two batts and it almost stranded my son out in the gulf. Aparently it is corroded or loose on the inside and would'nt make the connection or let the bat charge with motor running, my son had to turn the selector around and around between contact points till it finally connected with the charged batt no 2 to get home. So, are the idiot isolators or switches that are inline with the batts wiring reliable or is the 1-2-all switch more reliable the one that quit was one of the standard (cheapest) red ones-forget manufacturer. What batt configuration should i use i'm thinking 4 6v golf carts. Wow, you guys are getting great service from your setups. thanks again for the help. I will be posting the refit when i get it going-too damned hot right now.

 

[sailaway78]

Golf Cart Batts

I have four Sam's club golf cart batteries, and use them for both house and start. Occasionally switch over to the #1 ( start ) battery to make sure it's charged, and to top it off with the alternator. But basically I just leave it on the house bank. Instead of the selector switch being bad, it could be cable problem. I recently had a problem with a bad terminal at the starter, which drove me nuts. The only way it shows up is to check the voltage while someone hits the start button. I could measure no resistance in mine, and it showed 12+ volts without the starter being engaged. Hit the starter and it dropped to 6 volts or less. The cable was corroded inside the terminal crimp, and not visible until removed and inspected.

 

[sailormanbigd]

ok guys, i got it, I think. Thanks for the invaluable links Stu I will undoubtedly read and reread it to get it right. Thanks again. Pat