Odor when flushing

[Dave Robinson20509]

Hi Peggy,

I'm a faithful user of KO. However, every time either head is flushed, the odor id obnoxious. The boat was new 2 years ago. I add the label amount after each pump. What gives?

Dave

 

[Berndahle]

My guess is you're picking up stale sea water or some dead critters in your intake. Does it smell like sulfur the first few pumps but then it goes away after a few pumps?
I have the same problem and have started using fresh water from the shower to flush while I'm at the dock. I don't open the intake seacock until I'm underway and I close it before I get to the marina. It has made a big difference.

 

[Stu Jackson]

But doing it that way doesn't clean out the line from the intake thru hull to the head pump.

Connect the intake line to your head sink drain, close the thru hull on the last pump of the day, fill the head sink with water and flush with fresh for only the last one of the day.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5755.msg38216.html#msg38216

 

[Dave Robinson20509]

I should have added, fresh water electric toilets.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Where is the odor?

Stu and Bern may have enough psychic ability to know from the information you've provided whether your odor is only inside the boat...or only out the tank vent...or both...but my pyschic powers aren't that good, so I have to ask:

Inside the boat? Or out the tank vent? Both? If inside the boat, is it all over the boat? Confined to the head? Only when you flush...or always there but worse when you flush? Worse when you first come aboard after the boat has sat? Or all the time?

I also have to ask whether odor is something that's just started...or you've always had the problem. If it's new, what's changed? I need details!

Bern...you're only solving half your problem...water added directly to the bowl only goes out the bottom of the pump...leaving sea water to sit and stagnate in the intake line, pump and channel in the rim of the bowl. But if you tee your head intake line into your head sink drain line, you'd have a safe source of fresh water to rinse the sea water out the WHOLE system instead of only the bottom part of the pump and the head discharge line.

 

[Berndahle]

Re: Where is the odor?

Ok, I understand. I thought that the shallow, gunky marina water was what causes the smell, not so much cleaner sea water. But it sounds like any sea water will start to smell after sitting in a line for a few days. Is that correct?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Yup...That is correct.

It's especially true of sea water that's as "organic" as the waters in the Bay....a lotta micro (and not so micro) animal and veggie sea life in it that can really stink if it's left in the system to die and decay.

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting to hear where Dave's odor is...:dance:

 

[Guan]

Hi:

I have difficulty buying Odorlos.

Can I use Vinegar or Bleach??

Thanks.
Guan

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

No..they won't work

Vinegar will prevent mineral deposit buildup, but it can't prevent odor in the tank. And bleach should never be used in the tank or anywhere else...because it's highly corrosive, damaging to rubber and breaks down hose resistance to odor permeation.

The following should never be used in marine sanitation systems because they're damaging to toilet pumps and hoses: household chemical toilet bowl cleaners, bleach or any product that contains bleach or chlorine, pine oil cleaners, Lysol, petroleum based products (Vaseline, ethyline glycol antifreeze, etc). NEVER mix vinegar and bleach...it creates chlorine gas, which is even more lethal than mixing bleach and ammonia.

If you can't find Odorlos, look for microbial or enzyme products. Avoid chemical tank products.

 

[Dave Robinson20509]

Re: No..they won't work

Peggy,

The odor is from the vent on the outside. Nothing in the interior. It seems to have always been this way.

Dave

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Aha...that means K.O. isn't working...

The key to odor elimination is oxygen...and K.O. is a live bacteria product that has to function aerobically to prevent the tank contents from producing odor...it needs oxygen to prevent odor. Your tank vent may be working as a VENT is supposed to work, but apparently isn't VENTILATING the tank sufficiently to let K.O. work. Try switching to Odorlos ... the active ingredient in it is nitrates, which promote oxygen release from organic matter--iow, the waste itself, so it doesn't have to rely on an outside source of oxygen to prevent odor...and often works in tanks that K.O. doesn't. Read and follow the directions for use very carefully.

If Odorlos doesn't work, we're gonna have to do a little minor surgery to the tank venting for ANYthing work. So give it a try, then report back in couple of weeks.

However, there's an even better solution in your waters. There's only ONE "no discharge" zone in the whole Chesapeake Bay: Herring Bay...the discharge of treated waste from Coast Guard Certified Type I MSD (treatment device) is legal everywhere else...in fact, all the way to the Keys except for a very few, very small places along the way. Check out the Raritan PuraSan: Raritan Purasan Designed for use with toilets that use fresh water.

 

[thinwater]

Peggy,

The odor is from the vent on the outside. Nothing in the interior. It seems to have always been this way.

Dave

You could try a vent filter.

http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2011/04/holding-tank-vent-filter.html

While there are a bunch of weaknesses that can be pointed out, they are all solvable and our expereince has been terrific. Overnight, the problem was solved.

• The vent can plug with overflow. But not if it is installed high with a low by pass. If you install it low by simply cutting the hose, yup, this will be a dangerous problem. Your tank could either collapse or burst.
• The effectiveness of the carbon is reduced if it gets wet. True, but this is a matter of smart installation. It needs to be in a high loop.
• Manufacturer installation instruction are poor. Yes.
• A vent filter cannot be used with a Raritan treatment system. There is a reaction that must be avoided.
• A vent filter is expensive. Not if it is a refillable design, not if you compare the cost to all of the chemical you will buy, and not if you change it every 2 seasons (they last that long, based upon many experiences).

We haven't found any down side. No chemical to remember, just replace the carbon every few years. Ours is home-built, but there are many commercial units available. Just Google "holding tank vent filter." We tired chemicals for years and never found complete success.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

You'd have had more success if you'd tried increasing the ventilation instead of chemicals. Oxygen cures the problem...chemicals and vent filters only treat the symptoms while actually making the problem worse.

 

[thinwater]

You'd have had more success if you'd tried increasing the ventilation instead of chemicals. Oxygen cures the problem...chemicals and vent filters only treat the symptoms while actually making the problem worse.

Please expand. The problem is, for the major part and for the OP, the odor symptom. Sewage treatment plants use anerobic digestors all the time to treat sewage solids, primarily because this results in less solid residue than aerobic disgestion. Yes, they stink if the vents are not controlled... but they are. Aerobic digestion is not commonplace.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

This topic has been discussed enough that it doesn't need to be expanded again...so I 'm not gonna let you bait me into debating it again. Anyone who's interested can search for "vent line filters" to read all about it.

You've opted to treat symptoms instead of correcting venting that provides inadequate ventilation to cure the problem on your boat....ok...it is YOUR boat. Do whatever floats it for YOU.

However, I will continue to try to help those who'd rather cure the problem...which isn't very hard to do.

 

[thinwater]

Not baiting, I promise. I have a filter on my boat, and if there is a problem coming I would like to know what it is.

I did type the above search string, read the posts, found references to "problems", but only relating to plugging, cost, and moisture, which we've established are solvable with careful instalation.

The vent on my boat was only about 18 inches long, 3/4-inch diameter, and had a very short vertical leg. Ventilation and Oderlos should have been effective by the common reasoning, but were not.

What is the other problem, if not odor?

 

[Dave Robinson20509]

Thanks Peggy. I'll try Odorlos and report back.

Dave

 

[captstu]

Discharge lines dirty

I should have added, fresh water electric toilets.

After a few years of use, the discharge lines build up a layer of calcium and toilet waste. This can be cleaned by flushing with Hydrochloric Acid (muriatic acid) obtained from Home Depot, a pool supply, or a concrete supply.

The result will be easier flushing and less odor.

Where does your vented loop discharge? Is that the source of the smell?

Is the holding tank discharge someplace nearby where it could be the source of the smell?

/Stu

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

All very interesting, Stu...

And is certainly useful in tracking down odor inside the boat. But as he's stated, he doesn't have any odor inside the boat...his problem is odor out the tank vent...and odor out the tank vent can ONLY originate IN the tank, not in the plumbing.

Conversely, the tank--unless it's leaking--is rarely if ever the source of odor inside the boat. So no tank product or frequent pumpouts or larger tank vents will help odor inside the boat one bit. However, the head and related plumbing aren't the ONLY sources of odor inside the boat either...which is why I wrote a whole book on the subject.

 

[Stu Jackson]

The sink drain and Odorlos have worked very well for me, inside and outside.

I unnerstan...