Coastguard Harassment - ?

[Ross]

Ron, I love it when people complain about the government while they drive down a paved road. There is a popular bumper sticker the local farmes like. It says : Don't complain about farmers with your mouth full of food.
You want aids to navigation and good roads , I want good schools for my grandchildren, someone else wants low cost medical care, we complain about the lousy weather forecasts. we want the corps of engineers to maintain the leeves to keep our homes from flooding. When this country was founded building on a flood plain was unthinkable, that was prime farm land and you built on high ground. If we could each cut a government service that we think is un necessary everybody would be angry at having their important government program cut by someone who didn't understand our needs.

 

[RON20406]

Ron, I love it when people complain about the government while they drive down a paved road. There is a popular bumper sticker the local farmes like. It says : Don't complain about farmers with your mouth full of food.
You want aids to navigation and good roads , I want good schools for my grandchildren, someone else wants low cost medical care, we complain about the lousy weather forecasts. we want the corps of engineers to maintain the leeves to keep our homes from flooding. When this country was founded building on a flood plain was unthinkable, that was prime farm land and you built on high ground. If we could each cut a government service that we think is un necessary everybody would be angry at having their important government program cut by someone who didn't understand our needs.

Ross, I have no idea where you gleaned your response based upon what I wrote. The issues you mention are not relevant to the discussion. We are speaking about less government intervention in peoples lives on a personal level, not discussing the relevance of public works. Good luck and good sailing, Ron

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Good post Ross. It is most definitely relevant. People like to malign "government" generically except for the part(s) they value while enjoying all the benefits of those they don't.
As it relates to the CG, the minor intrusion they create by checking boats and boaters is a small price to pay for minimizing the idiots and drunks on the water

 

[Todd Smith]

As it relates to the CG, the minor intrusion they create by checking boats and boaters is a small price to pay for minimizing the idiots and drunks on the water

Do remember that we live in a demoracy, where "we the people" have both the right and the responsibility to determine what our government does. We don't have to "take or leave" the CG as it is. We are supposed to decide ( collectively ) what we want the CG to be.

 

[KMm]

I have been following this thread for days now and there have been pro and con statements made by all. I made a couple of calls to find out what the general orders are: The USCG ,the DEA, Border Patrol and US customs all are working under Homeland Security. So I suggest you get use to being boarded if you sail in any area that has a common boarder with a foreign country. The CG may have stopped you for a safety inspection but trust me that was not the only thing they were looking for. Feel lucky that you don't have to file a flight plan like aircraft when you sail in common waters with Canada and Mexico or any other foreign countries.
Usually, the person that yells the loudest about harassment is the one that has the most to hide.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Do remember that we live in a demoracy, where "we the people" have both the right and the responsibility to determine what our government does. We don't have to "take or leave" the CG as it is. We are supposed to decide ( collectively ) what we want the CG to be.

Actually it's a republic, not a true democracy and as such, we entrust our representatives. The only real control over which we exercise what you suggest is by voting and I'd suggest we don't generally do a very good job of that. Our representative create laws which the CG implements among which are the requirements and authorities here to which some object. If someone doesn't like what they are required and mandated to do, let's place the blame where it belongs.

 

[RON20406]

I have been following this thread for days now and there have been pro and con statements made by all. I made a couple of calls to find out what the general orders are: The USCG ,the DEA, Border Patrol and US customs all are working under Homeland Security. So I suggest you get use to being boarded if you sail in any area that has a common boarder with a foreign country. The CG may have stopped you for a safety inspection but trust me that was not the only thing they were looking for. Feel lucky that you don't have to file a flight plan like aircraft when you sail in common waters with Canada and Mexico or any other foreign countries.
Usually, the person that yells the loudest about harassment is the one that has the most to hide.

Kaymar, so that I understand . . . we should feel lucky that we don't have to file a flight plan when we sail? Is that a statement made by someone living in a Western Democracy or under totalitarian rule? Secondly, the person that yells the loudest is the one that has the most to hide? . . . Another perspective is the one that yells the loudest has the most to lose but, nonetheless, speaks out for what is right. Homeland Security . . . that's another issue altogether. Goodluck and good sailing, Ron

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Kaymar, now you're scaring me ...

So the random boardings by CG actually have another motive? It sounds like you are drawing a corelation between this and TSA agents who are forced by our government to grope toddlers and check the diapers of 90-year old women in wheel chairs at airport terminals ... totally useless activities.

Todd, I would like to believe that our government listens to us, but I am afraid that it is populated by 'servants' who have an over-riding attitude that they should do as they please.

 

[Scott B]

Of course this discussion would not be getting Political.......

 

[zeehag]

firsttime in a loong time illusion and i agree--lol-- we NEVER had democracy in usa--was never set up tobe a democracy, our founding fathers had deep set fears that some one of color might ... or that a sharecropper might.... or some such bigotted idealogies-- so was set up for the landholder. that landholder is now the corporation. we have voting power but our real power was removed with addition of an electoral college lol.....
our government listens to money.
when thad allen, commandant of uscg in past years made the comment that "the grweatest threat to national security is the recreationalboater," we shoul dhave known we were gonna be hit harder-- florida and kali have smugglers alleys for human trafficking and drug smugglers.... and uscg and homeless insecurity are one and same entity anymore. we willbe boarded and we will be searched. is gonna get more intense. smooth sailing.
for political flavor--all politicians suck.
.

 

[Solace of Freedom]

firsttime in a loong time illusion and i agree--lol-- we NEVER had democracy in usa--was never set up tobe a democracy, our founding fathers had deep set fears that some one of color might ... or that a sharecropper might.... or some such bigotted idealogies-- so was set up for the landholder. that landholder is now the corporation. we have voting power but our real power was removed with addition of an electoral college lol.....
our government listens to money.
when thad allen, commandant of uscg in past years made the comment that "the grweatest threat to national security is the recreationalboater," we shoul dhave known we were gonna be hit harder-- florida and kali have smugglers alleys for human trafficking and drug smugglers.... and uscg and homeless insecurity are one and same entity anymore. we willbe boarded and we will be searched. is gonna get more intense. smooth sailing.
for political flavor--all politicians suck.
.

Zeehag, I was not quite following you at first. Your grammar or typing's a bit rough, but, clearly, you have wisdom of age.
Any idiot can own & run a power boat. But, sailors are an intelligent lot. Still a few of you don't seem to get it. It doesn't matter if it is your porn collection, guns, Cuban cigars, crack, or your wives unmentionables, it is your stuff in your car or boat or house. You bought and earned it and you have a right to your privacey there w/in. Some of you seem to think 'well if your are doing something illegal it's OK to get searched because you should not be doing it and deserve to be caught'. In Libia or Iran that is how the gov. works but that is not how it is suppose to work in Western, 'free', nations. Or, that if you disagree w/ unlawfull searches you must be guilty. These laws were made to protect citizens (like the right to bare arms) from an over zealous gov. How hard fought were these freedoms earned, now so easily lost (the Patriot Act (the title is an oxi-moron)). Do you think you felt the same way when you were young[er]?
Kaymar, was it, I know I gave you a hard time in my last post, but you are an expert on the laws. You need probable cause to search a car and probable cause w/ a warrant to search a home, right? Why shouldn't the same go for boats? Or is it the same for any vehicle?

 

[Merlin Clark]

Zeehag, I was not quite following you at first. Your grammar or typing's a bit rough, but, clearly, you have wisdom of age.
Any idiot can own & run a power boat. But, sailors are an intelligent lot. Still a few of you don't seem to get it. It doesn't matter if it is your porn collection, guns, Cuban cigars, crack, or your wives unmentionables, it is your stuff in your car or boat or house. You bought and earned it and you have a right to your privacey there w/in. Some of you seem to think 'well if your are doing something illegal it's OK to get searched because you should not be doing it and deserve to be caught'. In Libia or Iran that is how the gov. works but that is not how it is suppose to work in Western, 'free', nations. Or, that if you disagree w/ unlawfull searches you must be guilty. These laws were made to protect citizens (like the right to bare arms) from an over zealous gov. How hard fought were these freedoms earned, now so easily lost (the Patriot Act (the title is an oxi-moron)). Do you think you felt the same way when you were young[er]?
Kaymar, was it, I know I gave you a hard time in my last post, but you are an expert on the laws. You need probable cause to search a car and probable cause w/ a warrant to search a home, right? Why shouldn't the same go for boats? Or is it the same for any vehicle?

Insulting people will not win them over to your opinion.

 

[zeehag]

seems usa has gotten a bit over the top after the 9-11 incident and has been consistently growing more towards a state against which we have parents who fought in ww2.
it isnt a surprise, considering the patriot act and its wording. step by step we have been losing our freedoms. there is not much left of the republic in which i grew up, nor the freedoms in which we revelled for so long.

 

[woodster]

Zeehag, I was not quite following you at first. Your grammar or typing's a bit rough, but, clearly, you have wisdom of age.
?

first off let me say that i am not posting this statement to start a dramitic fight .....

this is a great forum and all are welcome here...the people that set this up are very fine people and very giving and forgiving for that matter.....and if you look at the number of posts Zee has made in her time here ...it might intrest you to know that she is very well thought of ......so what if she has a grammer problem in your eyes....thats the uniqueness about her...and i just bet she does it by design.....as for me i am low on spelling skills as well as grammer and have no desire to change at this late date in life.....to me this place is about sailing and all that comes with it ...repairs, resources, and techinal infoe and most of all the people here.....so personally if you are the new kid on the block..... it would be smart on your part to...slow down with the openions about some ones short comings......as you will learn in time she will teach you a lot more than you can ever repay her through those grammer mistakes .....her writeing is like SBO in comic book form and i look foward to reading everything she posts..........................i have just about decided to delet this post............but as you can see i didnt do that........



i just hope you can read this with an open mind...as i am trying to share some food for thought your way.......

i am in no way a mod or anything else where this fourm is concerned...just a member here.......

regards and good sailing to you

woody

 

[Stu Jackson]

Besides, zee's in Mexico, having sailed down from San Diego.

Can you say that?

Good points Woodster, i just love yur grammer...

I also agree with zee's last points. Welcome to Police State 101. Drats, just when life was getting good, some jerk starts an unnecessary war and bankrupts the country... Man, what i could do with the first 6.1 trillion dollars. Heck, even the 9 BILLION that "went missing..." Ach...

Off to the War Room, Stuey!!!

You need probable cause to search a car and probable cause w/ a warrant to search a home, right? Why shouldn't the same go for boats? Or is it the same for any vehicle?

Uhm, it DOESN'T work that way with boats and CG. Why not read this whole thread, it's been covered. I do agree, however, that it shouldn't be. Just wishin' and a hopin'...