Manners, Manners, Where have they gone??

Jan 24, 2008
293
Alerion Express 28 Oneida Lake, NY
Winkfish...

THANKS - you've more or less confirmed what I've been told as to the literal meaning, along the lines of "what I did for you is so insignificant it's not worthy of your mentioning it".

To me, that's very similar to "no problem" in English.

In both cases, causes me no heartburn.

:)
Paul
 
Dec 7, 2003
14
- - Houston
Responding with You're Welcome" or "My Pleasure" is gracious

It would be difficult to say precisely when the response "No problem" first entered the public vernacular, but its use or more precisely, overuse, has been a point of contention among etiquette and grammar experts for decades. Some have no problem with a "no problem" response during an informal exchange, while others believe it is far too casual to be an acceptable response to a gracious "thank you."

As far as why many people prefer "no problem" to more formal responses could be a matter of habit and age. Older people tend to respond to an expression of thanks with more traditional phrases such as "you're welcome" or "my pleasure." These response reflect a certain humility on the part of the person being thanked. The person offering thanks is grateful for the service performed by the one being thanked, and a gracious "you're welcome" acknowledges the gratitude.

Younger people often tend to offer alternative responses when thanked, especially during less formal situations. By saying "no problem," the recipient of the gratitude is actually saying "this act or service did not inconvenience me in any way." The difference to some may be subtle, but to others it is profund. For the later group the "no problem" rewponse puts more emphasis on the recipient's personal welfare.

So you could say the use of the response "no problem" in response to hearing a "Thank You", is just one more bit of narcissism in an already overly narcissistic society.

A ticket agent who provides an airplane ticket for a customer, for example, is only performing one of his or her normal tasks. If the customer says "thank you," a more formal "you're welcome" would be considered more appropriate than "no problem."

Some people compound this grammatical and social dilemma by offering even more informal responses such as "no prob" or the pseudo-Spanish "no problemo." While the sentiment might be perfectly acceptable, the informality could definitely be seen as inappropriate to the occasion. Some etiquette and grammar experts would prefer to see the complete eradication of "no problem" from the popular vernacular, but others believe it is not as offensive as other possible responses or even non-responses.

So for the foreseeable future, the younger generation isn't going to change, so for them it would be perfectly acceptable to issue a "no problem", however many would hope that it should be limitied to a response to a friend's informal expression of thanks. But please avoid using it during more formal or professional situations or in situations where you do not know the person offering the Thank You. In those situations the more formal "You're Welcome" or "It's My Pleasure" are far better and definitely more dignified responses.

Kind Regards,
JonBill
 
Last edited:
Oct 1, 2007
1,865
Boston Whaler Super Sport Pt. Judith
Re: Responding with You're Welcome" or "My Pleasure" is grac

I think "no problem" has been superceded widely by "no worries".
 

Ctskip

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Sep 21, 2005
732
other 12 wet water
I have also noticed the manners have been sliding down hill for a number of years as Maine's informal research shows.

Here's a classic example. My brother recently died and I just happened to find our nephew on facebook a few days later, so I wrote to my nephew informing him that his uncle had died on such and such a date. He writes back with a "I know. Unfortunately, I was unable to attend". Being my snide old self, I wrote back and said "You are welcome and it is, most unfortunate". He's under thirty.

I also hold doors for others. I have even been known to pick up the news papers that don't quite make it to the stoop and toss them closer to the door. Having held many a door in my life, I never have I expected to be offered my rightful place in line afterwards. Never thought about it. I have heard many thank you's though. In my take charge manner, I have stuck a few younguns with "door duty" when many were coming through though.

Never give up the opportunity to lead by example. It just feels to good to quit now, besides maybe they'll learn something. One can only hope. I'll continue to do what makes me feel good, despite what other do or don't do. I sleep well at night. when we were going to bed at night, my grandfather use to say to us, sleep loose. I could never figure out what he was saying. I'd heard the sleep tight and don't let the bed bugs bite saying. In reference to the old rope beds. But to sleep loose? He meant don't do anything you'd regret so you can sleep comfortable and relaxed. Manners make me feel good, so I'm not about to stop now, no matter how rude or self indulgent society becomes. I was raised in Ct. I feel manners are manners no matter where one is from. No excuses.

I'm more concerned with those dock mates that will watch your boat sink while they look for ice cubes or catching their dog running loose after crapping on the dock somewhere. Not even making a motion to clean up after it. Or let the sail flap about and do nothing anything about it, not even let the mgmt know. Or letting it rub against the dock and do nothing, like they didn't notice. Those are the people I worry about.

Is there a Dr in the house? Don't everybody jump up.

Keep it up,
Ctskip
 
Jan 22, 2008
280
Hunter 25_73-83 NORTH POINT MARINA/WINTHROP HA IL
What we are experiencing throughout the U.S. in the decline of civility is a direct reaction to a disintegration of our culture. As the culture changes, so does each elemental aspect of the culture. As Americans made the transition from small towns, where everyone knew each other, to large cities, where anonymity was the norm, there was no penalty for rudeness to a stranger. If you are not a known member of a group, your transgressions will largely go unpunished. In many primordial tribes, crime, rudeness and selfishness do not exist since the group will not tolerate counterproductive behaviour. And, if a repeat offender is incorrigible,he is forever banned from the group. In modern urban society, unless the crimes are of a signficant nature, the violator goes unpunished. Why should we hold a door for a stranger who is not a member of our group? Why not cut in line if the opportunity exists? Why help a person in need if you're late for work or a social event? There is no penalty. However, the difference between Civilization and the Third World is that civilized countries maintain civility, compassion and the rule of law. In Third World countries it is the law of the jungle. So, when we encounter rudeness, selfishness and poor conduct, we are witnessing the decline of our culture into the throes of the Third World. Perhaps, it's too late to stop. Best, Ron
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
i have found better manners out here in 3rd worldville than in usa at present---i wish more folks in usa would be considerate--is becoming a problem for travelling outside of the boundaries of our nation at this time--- usa hasnt any culture anymore---- except in buttermilk and yoghurt and such.....
 

Ctskip

.
Sep 21, 2005
732
other 12 wet water
Just as the car made America mobile and we traveled away from our homesteads, much to our parents chagrin. Most settled 15 to 30 miles from home, some across the country, out to the suburbs and created our families there, spreading out the family and watering down of the family value system. Now with jobs rare and hard to find and gasoline being costly, most who moved to the burbs, where neighbors didn't know their neighbors are now moving back to the cities.
I was brought up between NYC and Boston and now live 23 miles from Dallas. I'll be moving into Dallas proper, as I find the people more friendlyand most all know each other in the city and care about their "hood". I am finding the inner city to be much more friendly and outgoing, as compared to the suburbs where the electric garage door opener helps create a closed door mentality. JMO.

Keep it up,
Ctskip
 
Jan 22, 2008
280
Hunter 25_73-83 NORTH POINT MARINA/WINTHROP HA IL
Third World manners

i have found better manners out here in 3rd worldville than in usa at present---i wish more folks in usa would be considerate--is becoming a problem for travelling outside of the boundaries of our nation at this time--- usa hasnt any culture anymore---- except in buttermilk and yoghurt and such.....
So, based upon your present experience in Mexico, we in the U.S. should continue on our present path and embrace our journey to the Third World since, once there, we will undoubtedly live in a more polite, civil manner than we do today. I'll think I'll ask my friend Don Quixote what he thinks about this tonight. Good luck and safe sailing, Ron
 

zeehag

.
Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
i think we all should make a point of being sweet and polite even if wanting to kill whatever is bugging ye..... then go home and catch a fish and eat it.... solves the need to kill something.....
 
Jan 22, 2008
280
Hunter 25_73-83 NORTH POINT MARINA/WINTHROP HA IL
i think we all should make a point of being sweet and polite even if wanting to kill whatever is bugging ye..... then go home and catch a fish and eat it.... solves the need to kill something.....
Reality, not rudeness, was my intent. . . with a touch of humor to soften the tone. Good luck and safe sailing, Ron
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
is truly sad what is happening in usa---i didnt like watching the downhill slide--- still dont--- but ....... stuff happens, and attitudes worsen -- i just wish manners would not slide to hades......
 
Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
Well civilization seems to be in a state of perpetual collapse Plato wrote about the horrific decline in manners. Still your chance of being murdered in the USA is now 1/2 of what that chance was in the 90's. So either people are in some way more polite, or my campaign to dig deep (as opposed to shallow) graves is succeeding
 
Aug 12, 2010
46
Catalina C22 Lake Erie
as is everyone else.
we reap what we sow

Manners got thrown away with the Bible.
I'll try and behave and just ask " what the hell does that mean?" W/out Christian religion people won't behave in a civil manner? If you weren't Christian would how you treat others change?
From the actions of a few *******s, how I interact w/ folks at work has changed (in an effort to avoid such actions in the future). But, I'll always hold the door for someone. I never thought twice about their responce or that they would give me the next spot in line. I like being polite, and holding a door is not a big deal. Manners are subjective, what one thinks is impolite may be indifferent to someone else.
 

zeehag

.
Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
i have noticed in my travels that many places i go, the folks have much better manners than i have found in my own home city. i have been befriended and i have been assisted onto docks from my kayak despite my ability to sef help--- but this is not done in good old usa-- the males of 3rd world nations respect women and treat them in a more positive manner than do males in usa. sorry, boys, is fact and truth.
there is truly no reason for folks to not have manners and decent behaviour-- has our alleged wealth made us , those who remain citizens of usa, more insensitive, more arrogant and more alllegedly superior than folks of the "third world" whose genteelness outranks that of anyone i have met in usa( except for my great grandparents)?
as far as christianity goes--- the worst wife beaters i have met were born again christians.. i doubt religion, or lack thereof , has anything to do with manners.
 
Aug 20, 2010
1,399
Oday 27 Oak Orchard
No worries. If history teaches us anything it is that there are life cycles to everything. Overall the trend is always toward the better. I think the reason lies in; as the decline of anything people come to the conclusion there must be a better way. At this point there is a massive upward shift and the cycle repeats. I'm fond of saying things will get better it's just a matter of how lousy we will make them first. Don't give up on manners Maine sail, somebody has to keep the idea alive until the time comes for that upward shift.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,689
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
the males of 3rd world nations respect women and treat them in a more positive manner than do males in usa. sorry, boys, is fact and truth.
Fact & Truth? By who's standard? Try being a Mayan women in Central America. They have nearly zero rights and are considered the lowest from of life and treated as such by nearly everyone but Mayan men. They pay them considerably less than Mayan men, almost nothing, and they do a large portion of the work.

It is about as close to slavery as I have ever witnessed and not even close to what I would call "respected". I have spent a good deal of time in Central America and been embroiled in some of their corrupt politics as our daughter was born in Guatemala. My friend Susanna was illegally jailed, and is still in jail, for simply speaking her mind as a woman and standing up for woman's issues in Guatemala. They have not charged her yet, don't have to, and they can keep her as long as they like while "building a case". Respect for women....?? Really???? All women are NOT respected to treated well in many of the third world countries especially the ones I have spent time in. I am certain my friend Susanna who has been a lifelong woman's advocate in Guatemala would certainly disagree with your "fact" about "respect" by males.
 

jimmyb

.
Feb 12, 2010
231
Precison 165 NA
Im a little late coming in on this one but I am in agreement with Maine on the topic of manners. In almost every aspect of daily living in a community the level of civility has gone to hell in a handbasket.

On the issue of "no problem" vs. "thank you" I could not care less about how someone responds after I thank them for a good deed done. It is the deed itself that has already prooved to me that the lady or gent has in his heart to do good. It seems a bit much that after they have helped me in some manner that I require a specific answer from them. It will always be enough for me that someone took a second to help me with something.

Im a bit laid back. I was taught to always have manners in dealing with folks even when they were not always deserving but Im not stuck on all the details of properness of response ect. Im not a big Obama fan but I felt bad for him when the Queen snubbed his toast because of some friggin protocol. National anthem or not. It was an honest mistake and people with no grace will get no grace in the end. All I could think was man what a B*TCH!

There are any number of cultures and any number languages and any number of responses folks can give you in response to a thank you or other. Just try to remember they are the one that has taken from there time to give to you and be graceous of there response be it a no problem, no worries or even its cool!

jimmyb
 
Jan 22, 2008
280
Hunter 25_73-83 NORTH POINT MARINA/WINTHROP HA IL
Fact & Truth? By who's standard? Try being a Mayan women in Central America. They have nearly zero rights and are considered the lowest from of life and treated as such by nearly everyone but Mayan men. They pay them considerably less than Mayan men, almost nothing, and they do a large portion of the work.

It is about as close to slavery as I have ever witnessed and not even close to what I would call "respected". I have spent a good deal of time in Central America and been embroiled in some of their corrupt politics as our daughter was born in Guatemala. My friend Susanna was illegally jailed, and is still in jail, for simply speaking her mind as a woman and standing up for woman's issues in Guatemala. They have not charged her yet, don't have to, and they can keep her as long as they like while "building a case". Respect for women....?? Really???? All women are NOT respected to treated well in many of the third world countries especially the ones I have spent time in. I am certain my friend Susanna who has been a lifelong woman's advocate in Guatemala would certainly disagree with your "fact" about "respect" by males.
Well said and exactly correct. If you speak to anyone who has traveled extensively throughout Mexico and Latin America, as I have, they will confirm that women, especially among the campesinos, are treated little better than farm animals.Wife beating and abuse are a practiced norm. Also, Mexico has a rape rate epidemic of 40% among girls 12-16 years old and many of the rapes are commited by family members. The Sandanistas rebellion in Nicaragua practiced widespread rape among the villages they attacked where women and girls of all ages were considered spoils of war. This was also the practice of the "revolutionary" armies of Colombia, Venezuela, and Guatamala . To judge the civility of a people/nation, you do not use the standard of whether someone assists you in and out of a kayak. There may be more behind this act of kindness than meets the eye. Americans are quick to judge their own and believe things are better elsewhere, but once you leave the civilized world of the U.S., Canada and Western Europe, you will find the brutality and senseless violence of the Third World both omnipresent and unbearable. Ideality is a harsh teacher. Good luck and safe sailing, Ron