Now this is really, really scary.

[Roger Long]

From Wooden Boat Forum where I also posted the thread link to the article on FL anchoring regulations:

Boat Busted Over Sea Grass
Boat/US Magazine, July, 2001 by Elaine Dickinson
1 2 3 Next
"The gods visit the sins of the father upon the children," said Euripides, but would anyone believe that the sins of a boat's previous owner could be visited upon its current owner?

In November of 1999, BoatU.S. member Robert Hicks was stunned to hear that his Hatteras motoryacht First Choice had been seized by federal agents, with no warning whatsoever. The boat was "arrested" in rem because the previous owner had run aground in Biscayne National Park near Miami, FL, and damaged some underwater sea grass there. ("In rem" is a legal term for action taken against property, not a person.) The vessel grounding occurred in February 1996, two years before Hicks purchased the vessel.

Can you be held liable for an incident that occurred years before you owned the boat? It seems you can, as Hicks, his insurance company, American Yachts, Ltd., and a small army of attorneys working on the case found out.

"Under admiralty law, a vessel has its own personality and a claim goes with the vessel, not the person," said Andrew W. Anderson, a Miami admiralty attorney retained by American Yachts, which, incidentally, had no obligation to cover any fines or damage claims for this grounding under the terms of its policy with Hicks.

Link to full article: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQK/is_4_6/ai_76812792/

Get me outta here!

 

[gettinthere]

the issue SHOULD have been that the feds did not put a lean on the vessel in the 2 years after the accident. In some charges, the feds have only one year to file.

 

[higgs]

Avoid cruising Florida.

 

[miatapaul]

Avoid cruising Florida.

What does it have to do with cruising Florida? It was federal agents not locals

 

[Ross]

Makes me wonder about the statue of limitations is in this case.

 

[petersea]

What surprised me is that the "authorities" suggest that boaters lift their engines and "pole" thur the area. Would not poling thru seagrass not damage it ?? Also got to wonder how they determined $84k for the damages done but were willing to "settle" for less then half....another case of government out of control.

 

[RAD]

Sounds like the same federal agents (NOAA) I think that have been giving out hefty fines to commercial fisherman then taking the proceeds to fund their cars,vacations,etc

 

[Joe]

Would some kind of title insurance protect the new owner in this case? My feeling is the new owner has a case against the previous owner for non disclosure, misrepresentation... fraud.. maybe? I don't know, I'm no lawyer, but a title insurance policy, if such a thing exists.. might not be a bad idea.

 

[Ross]

In commercial real estate the history of the use attaches to the land. Example: If a prior use had been a gas station and there had been a gasoline leak the current owner of the land is the go to guy for law suits. For this reason many properties that were once service stations remain vacant. A title search will discovery this. For boats I don't believe that there is a central record base for the history of violations.

 

[Roger Long]

My feeling is the new owner has a case against the previous owner for non disclosure, misrepresentation... fraud.. maybe?

If the Feds hadn't taken any action against the boat or indicated that they might, the PO is probably off the hook. (I'm not a lawyer put I played a naval architect who was married to one on TV.) I think the buyer would have to prove that the PO had a reasonable expectation that action could be taken against the vessel. For something this obscure, it would be hard to prove. If he hadn't paid a big yard bill, it might be different. Anyway, I'm sure this never would have become a story if an expensive lawyer had been able to straighten it out.

These old laws exist for very good reasons, to protect seamen and to prevent vessel owners hiding behind shell corporations. I don't have an issue with the law but with the gubmint going after someone they know to be entirely blameless.

 

[catsailor]

In the Chesapeake saving eel grass bed is a big deal and money is spent... and then waterman run their dredges through the bed, churning up slicks of grass and doing far more damage in minutes than this could be about.

Personally, I don't care for oysters or clams an so I feel no consumer guilt.

 

[soling42]

So with that people should avoid cruising Florida like it'd only happen here? Sadly in this 11y/o story a new owner seems unjustly involved by a previous owner. Our only view can be that the court reviewed all the facts and hopefully made a fair determination. Is there more to this story, probably.

The 3million dollar case in the story was a freighter that completely pulverized a large section of a pristine reef in the keys due to blatant negligence. The scene would make any responsible boater enraged. A large yacht can quickly plow enormous holes in a reef or grass flat, so nobody's responsible to make it right? I don't imagine this was a case of a simple prop cut into a sandbar. Boaters come here from far and wide. Some unprepared, inexperienced or with disregard for our resources but our far overburden natural resources personnel rarely touch the surface of the damage done.

Extreme stories exist but 99.9% of the time with prudent navigation you have absolutely nothing to fear whether you're in Maine, California or Florida. The moral of the normal story is to be safe or be well insured to repair what your negligence screws up. Rest assured that a scary/unjust story will pop up in your state and people will over react there too. If it's too scary to come to Florida then you better stay tied up to a dock wherever you are because "if it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there".

Happy boating

 

[Roger Long]

So with that people should avoid cruising Florida like it'd only happen here?

The OP wasn't intended to be a FL story. It just came up in a thread about anchoring in FL.

Incidentally, I finally read the full Sea Grant paper on the anchoring situation in FL. It certainly proves your point about getting the full story. There probably have been some ignorant and over zealous enforcement actions by water cops who heard that anchoring had been made illegal but it doesn't sound like there has been significant hassling of legitimate cruisers. As a harbormaster, I can see the FL has a legitimate problem with floating slums.

There are plenty of reasons not to cruise in Maine. If you are from a state that doesn't collect sales tax and you rent a mooring or dock from a marina in a major yachting center, there is a good chance you will receive a letter from the state threatening to put a lien on your vessel unless you can provide receipts to prove where she was every minute that you owned her. They do the same thing with aircraft and have destroyed aviation businesses and chased most of the large international yachts that used to leave so much money in this state away. If you are from a non-sales tax state, their position is that you must pay the tax unless you can provide more paperwork than most people would ever retain on their boat.

 

[soling42]

Thanks Roger, I admit I'm a little edgy when people who have strong opinions about Fl cruising "issues" haven't seen both sides of the problem. Whether it's uptight municipalities reacting to homeless folks on barges/boats without considering the whole cruising transient story or cruisers who paint the whole state based on one/two problem areas. The economy has exacerbated a homeless issue in paradise that may not be possible in northern climates due to weather and some cities are dealing with it well while others are in the learning phase.

To me the story quoted is sensationalized old news that, while interesting, seems like such an anomaly it'd be a million to one for a normal boat transaction to get as screwed up. A perfect storm of coincidences that could happen in any state. As mentioned it won't be long before some ingenious agent sells some form of title insc needed/warranted for a large boat purchase.

If everyone felt good about coming here it'd just be too crowded so I should be happy with the perception of chaos. Actually the cruising here is terrible.....no one else should come

Mike

 

[Joe]

I am I weird, or does this seem like a case of arresting the gun instead of the shooter in a murder case?

 

[Sailm8]

According to the Florida Sea Grant Office, this is the most comprehensive opinion on anchor and anchoring rights.
http://www.flseagrant.org/images/PDFs/anchoring away_03_09_11_full_web3.pdf

Be aware it is a long document.

 

[Stroh]

The boat was "arrested" in rem because the previous owner had run aground in Biscayne National Park near Miami, FL, and damaged some underwater sea grass there.

I think they should make the boat pay the fine.

 

[Ray Bowles]

Was the boat a "documented craft"?

I wonder if the boat was documented and if that would have brought up the previous infraction?
When we were cruising in the early 2000's through both coasts of Florida and through the Keys the sea grass beds were well marked. There were buoys well placed and plackarded explaining what they were. Those warnings were regularly violated by diingys with motors and the path they took was very easy to see as all the sea grass was torn out and only sand remained.
Additionally when we were in Marithon many locals ran through the harbor at great speed and completely out of the channel. It was easy to see why the manitees are threatened.
I don't take side in either debate, this is just what we saw.
Ray

 

[mel22]

What surprised me is that the "authorities" suggest that boaters lift their engines and "pole" thur the area. Would not poling thru seagrass not damage it ?? Also got to wonder how they determined $84k for the damages done but were willing to "settle" for less then half....another case of government out of control.

Yes but presumebly only the pole would be held liable. If you pitch is and some poor person on shore picks it up woe be unto them when the feds catch up.

I like the Idea someone put forward, stay out of florida. One year of no out of state boaters and the state would be crying for them to come back. But we all know Americans will not denie themselves, so buisness as usual.