New Product Survey

[Maine Sail]

Hi Crew,

I am looking at adding another product to my offerings and want to get some feedback.

My intention is to offer solid fiberglass backing blocks for seacocks that are pre-made in three sizes to fit most all sizes of seacock.

They would be made of solid thermoset fiberglass sheet and pre-cut with a 1/4" hole in the center. The center hole would allow you to drill the hole for the thru-hull fitting.

These blocks would last the lifetime of the vessel and never need replacing. The thermoset fiberglass sheet product and machining is not cheap so I want to get an idea of what this product may be worth to you all. Each disk would need to sell in the $20.00 - $28.00 range in order for it to even be viable. If doing a seacock re-fit would these be an item you'd buy? I've been making my own for years and love using glass backers but laminating it gets tedious and cutting them with a hole saw is a bear..

What do you think?

 

[Roger Long]

I would certainly have bought them if they were available when I redid my seacocks. I expect the epoxy embalmed plywood ones I put in will last longer than I will though.

 

[Steve Dion]

MS:

Considering that penetrating epoxy is probably going to cost $15-18 for a small amount (4 oz) these may not be a bad deal. Especially considering that you may need to replace some of them after just a few years.

 

[Roger Long]

Considering that penetrating epoxy is probably going to cost $15-18

Good point. My backing blocks probably cost me more than these would have even though I did the work myself. If you were having a yard redo your through hulls, you would probably save a lot with these parts.

 

[RichH]

My current cost for layup, laminating and molding, etc. certainly exceeds $28.00 each ... and that doesnt include my time.

The only downside would be the hull curvature vs. backing block requirements.

 

[kloudie1]

I am pretty... uuuuhhhhh... frugal.. so if ya can stay closer to the 20 number, that would be an enhancement. My "not saturated" wooden ones are still fine after over 20 years.. but given a choice, I would rather have a glass plate there..

 

[Ted]

Maine Sail, How thick are these backing plates going to be? I'm a cheap, die hard do it yourself type of guy. Mcmaster sells fiberglass sheets which makes it easy for most dyi boaters to make their own. If they're considering messing with their through hull fittings I think they would fall into the dyi category. In any event the installer is going to have to bore the center hole so there is still work to be done on their part. On the other hand, buying your new product is much easier but costlier if I don't figure in what my time is worth. I think in the end it comes down to how much time or money your target market is willing to give up. I think it's a great product for some not so handy boat owners.

 

[Maine Sail]

Maine Sail, How thick are these backing plates going to be? I'm a cheap, die hard do it yourself type of guy. Mcmaster sells fiberglass sheets which makes it easy for most dyi boaters to make their own. If they're considering messing with their through hull fittings I think they would fall into the dyi category. In any event the installer is going to have to bore the center hole so there is still work to be done on their part. On the other hand, buying your new product is much easier but costlier if I don't figure in what my time is worth. I think in the end it comes down to how much time or money your target market is willing to give up. I think it's a great product for some not so handy boat owners.

It's 5/8" thick. Also consider tooling costs. I can chew through a high quality Lennox hole saw in about three backing blocks and that is hand laminated stuff not the poltruded product, which is tougher on blades. The $28.00 number, and this is preliminary pricing, is for a big 7" block for a 2 1/2" thru-hull. I may not even go that big to begin with and may just go to 2" for now. An 8" backing block is going to be rare as are 3" seacocks...

 

[catsailor]

I'm a bad example, as I cut what I need from free surpluss FRP or alluminum, but...

It seems to me that ALL backers would be a better market. Yes, DIYs can buy the materials, but they have to buy a whole sheet to get what they need and many arn't good at working metal or FRP. True, the seacock application is inherantly more valuable, but why not set up to make backers in...
* 1/8 aluminum. Cam cleats and the like.
* 1/4 aluminum. I generally only use this if I need threads for some reason.
* 1/8 FRP. Winches.
* 1/4 FRP. Sea cocks, windlasses.
* Stainless is up to you. I find it far to annoying to work for backing plates.
If they send a tracing or the instalation template, they get the holes drilled for a fee. Otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised if some stock sizes wouldn't cover most cleats, winches, and deck fittings.

I don't think CNC perfection is warented; just a good workman like standard.

 

[Snotter]

That's exactly what I am looking for now. Any chance I can buy 3 or 4 in the next 6 weeks?

 

[tommays]

I bought a poltruded fiberglass tube sample set when doing Seafevers sterntube and did not care for the quality and shelled out the bucks for a G10 tube which was much better

I followed your excellent guide and made my plates out of 1/2" G10 sheet BUT i do have a complete machine shop to work in and if i was doing a large amount i would waterjet them

The bridgeport allows me to run a holesaw at 100 RPM and mist it which greatly extends the life

One of the issues i found in working with 3/4 Groco tri-flange units like the BV-750 was there was a bit more variation in the bolt pattern than you would expect as out of three units one was different enough to be difficult to slide over the studs and if i had to drill and tap holes it would affect the value to me

 

[Maine Sail]

I bought a poltruded fiberglass tube sample set when doing Seafevers sterntube and did not care for the quality and shelled out the bucks for a G10 tube which was much better

I followed your excellent guide and made my plates out of 1/2" G10 sheet BUT i do have a complete machine shop to work in and if i was doing a large amount i would waterjet them

The bridgeport allows me to run a holesaw at 100 RPM and mist it which greatly extends the life

One of the issues i found in working with 3/4 Groco tri-flange units like the BV-750 was there was a bit more variation in the bolt pattern than you would expect as out of three units one was different enough to be difficult to slide over the studs and if i had to drill and tap holes it would affect the value to me

Good catch! The product is actually thermoset not pultruded. Have had so many quotes and lingo going through my head....

 

[Fred Villiard]

Maine, Is there any reason that the thru hull backers are round? The reason I'm asking is that I have three square ones, made out of 3/8 FR4 waiting for warmer weather to put in. Used SS helicoils for the threads. Iwill make them round if they should be.

Fred Villiard

 

[robertsapp]

I like the idea. I'm not planning on doing thru hulls this year, but the day will probably come. I'd order a set.

 

[wetass]

If your still getting quotes, you may want to talk to a circuit board shop - They have the material and equipment to laminate the prepreg for you and even drill the holes. If you wanted, they could even cut them out for you. 5/8 might be a bit thick but who knows. Just an idea.

Also, I thought technically all resins we regularly use (epoxy, polyester, & vinylester) are thermoset plastics.

BTW, it seems to me I did see a guy on ebay selling a 1/4" thick backing plate (or something around that) a few weeks back - If you can find that listing, maybe you can see what they went for. Sounds like yours would be much more robust.

 

[gettinthere]

Somebody posted they spent $20 on some resin to seal their backing blocks?

I bought 1 1/2 gallons of no-blush epoxy for $70. I thinned it to seal a piece of 3/4" ply for a backing block. Scrap ply was free and the epoxy had to cost me all of a few bucks.

 

[kloudie1]

Thermoset is a polymer that only sets when heated.. The stuff we use generally produces heat as a byproduct of the chemical reaction of the stuff polymerizing.. they are chemically setting polymers..

 

[foustjl]

I'm planning to do all my thru holes and seacocks next haul out. I wouldn't have a problem paying the $28 for some ready made. The PO used starboard for backing on a couple of the thru holes and i have heard bad things about using starboard as a backing. Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[catsailor]

Thermoset is a polymer that only sets when heated.. The stuff we use generally produces heat as a byproduct of the chemical reaction of the stuff polymerizing.. they are chemically setting polymers..

Actually, epoxy is a thermoset; it cannot be melted after it is cured. Heating is not a part of the definition, although heating can be a part of the curing process. A thermoplastic materials (polyethylene) can be melted and molded.

Adj.1.thermoset - having the property of becoming permanently hard and rigid when heated or cured; "the phenol resins and plastics were the original synthetic thermosetting materials"