Non-Skid Paint

[jorgefife]

I know I have posted a similar request before
And as usual, the response was superb; but I want to narrow down my search, as follows:
The starboard side of my boat was severely damaged by Ike, but I repaired it
The area starting more or less in line to the forward hatch, all along to the back, where it curves down, about 15 feet, just above the wood trim that runs alongside, will never be the same, but I did what I could
Now I want to paint the surface, up to the trim as above, and all on top of the deck, with non-skid
I want to know from you good people (and patient people) what brand I should get, and whether it already has the fine granules to make it " non-ski"
Or do I get a shaker and then dispense the "sand" over the paint?
I believe a roller is the ideal; and I believe that FIRST i do the white smooth part, and then the non-skid
So there you have it: I would like to just go and buy off the shelf
Of course I will get different names from you good people, but then I can narrow it down to price, as I believe the quality that you will recommend will be as it was for your own boat
The color I already know.
Thank you so much
Always in a quest for a nicer boat!

 

[Ed Schenck]

Not understanding exactly what you are wanting to paint. You write "up to the wood trim". Is that the small trim strip along the cabin trunk above the portlights. But then you say "all on top of the deck". So I guess you are not painting above the trim, just the sides below the trim and then the walking part of the deck.

At any rate I painted all of my white gelcoat first because I had the portlights out. I used the best Interlux one-part polyurethane at the time. Two-part is better but it takes two painters to keep a wet edge. Then I masked and painted the non-skid using Interlux's Interdeck, a pre-mix. Several years later the non-skid still is and the white cleans up and shines.

When painting the white I put a white stripe from the anchor locker all the way back over the cabin roof. This stripe, about two inches wide, meant that I only had to paint one half of the non-skid at a time. Going from front to back and having to paint the entire width means I would not have been able to keep a wet edge. These paints set up very fast. You can see the stripe in a couple of the pictures, like behind the mast.

 

[jorgefife]

Non-skid

Not understanding exactly what you are wanting to paint. You write "up to the wood trim". Is that the small trim strip along the cabin trunk above the portlights. But then you say "all on top of the deck". So I guess you are not painting above the trim, just the sides below the trim and then the walking part of the deck.

At any rate I painted all of my white gelcoat first because I had the portlights out. I used the best Interlux one-part polyurethane at the time. Two-part is better but it takes two painters to keep a wet edge. Then I masked and painted the non-skid using Interlux's Interdeck, a pre-mix. Several years later the non-skid still is and the white cleans up and shines.

When painting the white I put a white stripe from the anchor locker all the way back over the cabin roof. This stripe, about two inches wide, meant that I only had to paint one half of the non-skid at a time. Going from front to back and having to paint the entire width means I would not have been able to keep a wet edge. These paints set up very fast. You can see the stripe in a couple of the pictures, like behind the mast.

Dear Ed,
Reading my own posting, I am confused
But I want to paint the whole top where you walk on, starting more or less where the thin strip of wood runs along the top of the deck
I think I want to start more or less just above the port lights, and on to the other side, so it all matches
I will try post a picture, but your pictures and your suggestions are spot on: I will do the whole top, and over the sides
As I say, will post a picture
Thank you ed. Your boat looks great!

 

[Ed Schenck]

Wish that it did Jorge. It arrived on the truck from Florida the day they turned off the water at the marina. So it sits under a tarp and lots of snow and is filthy.

The difference if you paint all the decks and cabin trunk will be the masking of the trim and portlights. It was easy with both of those off the boat. It was when I was swapping the plastic for the bronze portlights.

 

[jorgefife]

Ed,
Me again: did you use a roller to paint the gelcoat, or a brush?

 

[Ed Schenck]

Meant to mention that. I tried a roller with not much luck. That paint is so thick that I just got splotches with the roller and had to drag through it with a brush. When I used just a brush it looked every bit as good. I did test my painting ability early on by taking the cockpit locker lids home. And then I did the anchor locker door next to see if I liked the color on the deck. So lots of testing before I tackled the decks.

I should add that I have never done the cockpit except for the locker lids and the non-skid. When I did the cabin trunk, top and sides, I stopped on the top at the back. I stopped on the sides just past the start of the coaming. Outside of the deck nonskid by the toerails I went all the way to the stern. So I still have the coamings and the inside of the cockpit to paint someday.

 

[jorgefife]

I promise will ask no more questions: what are the coamings?
And if you explain where cabin trunk is, not only will I add to my "boat vocabulary", but will also figure out what area you referred to
Sorry...

 

[rardiH36]

Hi Jorge:

I'll describe what I did ... although I really won't aggressively advocate my choice for reasons explained further below. But maybe some bits might help as you contemplate your direction.

The original 28 year old non-skid portions of my deck had maintained good integrity. And the factory rough relief was not worn down. But the surface had deep rust and other stains that I couldn't remove entirely. Also I was growing concerned that UV would soon begin to break down the non-skid -- as it had the smooth gelcoat already. So time to re coat.

I opted to use Interlux 2-part Perfection polyurethane. The stuff is normally very glossy which wouldn't look good for non-skid, so I mixed in the max allowed amount of their flattening agent option. Color was Matterhorn White, the same as my smooth gelcoat job. (I therefore had some left-over for the boom painting). But to duplicate the very light gray color of the non-skid portion of my neighbor's 2005 Catalina 355, which I admired, I added a few drops of black tinting paste and even less of brown. (The brown was necessary to change the appearance from a gray that had a pronounced blueish hue to that of a more natural gray.) Also added to the paint was Interlux's anti skid granules. Perfection sets up so quickly that sprinkling them on with a shaker would not settle in to adhere. The Interlux non-skid granules are very fine, so just an occasional stirring keeps them suspended in the paint. After masking, application was by paint brush. When thinned by the special brushing thinner as specified in the instructions, Perfection flows out nicely. That and because of the already stippled surface, I have no brush marks. Surface preparation was a good washing with a stiff scrub brush to just remove the surface layer of oxidation. I had never put wax on the non-skid and I just assumed the PO's hadn't either. The product covered very well in two coats with no fish-eyes.

Two years on, the surface is holding up splendidly. Looks virtually the same as the day I painted it. Anti-skid properties seem much the same as the factory finish on newer boats.

Drawbacks of Two-Part coatings for non-skid:

- Expensive. Not only the Perfection itself, but add the cost for the flattening agent and the special thinners.
- The stuff is tricky to use. Moderately short pot life. Very demanding mixing ratios and non-skid additive sequence. Ambient temperature must be right and don't do it near sunset as night condensation before enough cure time can ruin the surface gloss.
- It didn't occur to me at the time, but subsequently I am worried for painting my next coat of non-skid. Two-part polyurethane normally must be sanded very well with 220 grit (or less) so that new coats will stick to it. For the smooth gelcoat, sanding of course is doable even by hand. But for the non-skid, in theory, all the relief/stipples must be sanded or ground out to achieve the proper surface for painting. I am hoping that in say another 5 years time, UV oxidation will have "roughened" up the surface enough to accept another application without sanding.

As Ed posted he's a one-part polyurethane guy. I've read many good things about the one-part coatings such as Kiwi-grip (available through this site). Maybe they won't stay stain-free as long as the two-part Perfection, but I'm sure its a lot easier. My own personal reservation about the dedicated anti-skid products is just my personal preference in respect of the color out of the can. The pastels always seem several shades too dark compared to the anti skid color of most new boats which is much more subtle. I didn't want my outcome to look like a re-paint. An option is what I did. Maybe buy the white (or off-white) and then sparingly (very) add tinting. Keep in mind that paints most often will dry darker or lighter than when wet. A blow dryer will set a small test patch quickly. Helps if you have used tints before to get a color “more to your liking”.

Attached are several of pics taken about year, or maybe a year and a half, after the non-skid painting. The metallic green trim however was just completed.

regards,
rardi

 

[Ed Schenck]

I have heard "cabin house" as well as "cabin trunk". It is the part of the boat that contains the hatches and portlights, the whole raised portion of the boat. The coamings are what surrounds you in the cockpit, what you lean back on when you are sitting, and what your jib winches are mounted on top of. So the parts of my boat that are still original gelcoat(inside the toerails) would include those coamings on the outside down to the deck and the entire inside of the cockpit including the bulkheads to either side of the companionway. It still polishes up pretty well. And my topsides(the sides of the boat down to the waterline) is original gelcoat that still shines with a lot of work. In the picture all the gelcoat that can be seen is unpainted.

 

[jorgefife]

Thank you Rardi and Ed
I like both clours of both boats: mine has a very light grey ( which happens to be my favourite colour), but I like the egg shell on Ed's boat
I am very excited going through all of this: where have I been all these years?
Must be in the blood: we portuguese discovered half of the world, but I must be a disgrace to the heritage!
Still, I persevere

 

[Ed Schenck]

Perseverance is probably a requirement for a Cherubini owner. "By perseverance the snail reached the ark." It looks like your wood trim(eyebrow) needs replaced. The painting will be much easier with it off. Taping the portlight trim rings will be a challenge. But you cannot take those off without breaking them. You could try and then buy new ones for those you break. The trim rings can be purchased here on the SBO store for about $18. each.

 

[sandpiper10471]

The nicest paint job you will get is with a spray gun. If you have access to a large compressor and sprayer, then go that way. Fine beads can be mixed in for the non-skid but it won't be particularly aggressive.
Whether spraying or rolling, if you can, arrange to have the boat under some kind of cover or roof. Even several hours after deck painting, a bit of dew can destroy the shine if you are using two part paint.

I found the best way to do the non-skid was with a roller and large salt shaker for the beads. Requires two coats. I have done the job mixing the beads into the paint but it always comes out a bit streaky for some reason.

Always do the smooth parts first, otherwise you can't mask off effectively and paint will bleed under your tape.

Perfection is an excellent paint and was developed for the roll and tip technique. Awlgrip sells thinners etc. to do the same with their paint. I have also had luck with other two part paints, mostly based on automotive paints. PPG, Imron and Epiphanes spray and roll/tip well but can also be wetsanded and buffed, unlike the two previously mentioned. The advantages here - you can patch and blend damaged sections later and you can recover a less than perfect paint job (streaks, runs, bugs, weeds, dust etc.)

Perfection and Awlgrip cannot be sanded and buffed later.

 

[rardiH36]

Dear Sandpiper:

The information that PPG, Imron and Epiphanes 2-part can be wet sanded and buffed back to a good surface shine is really good to know. For future painting projects, I'll be inclined to use. Thanks.

 

[claskey]

I used Kiwi- Grip after the recore of the deck step mast, on my 1984 27'. It has only been one season, but it looks like the day I put it on. It has great non skid properties. If it holds up well you can not beat it for ease of use.

 

[rardiH36]

Again, just throwing out some off-the-cuff variations:

... It looks like your wood trim(eyebrow) needs replaced. The painting will be much easier with it off.

Sacrilege undoubtedly, but an option is to remove the teak eyebrows and not replace. Countersink/bevel the now unneeded screw holes in the cabin-top gelcoat, fill up with thickened epoxy, and sand flush to the surrounding surface. (Probably will take a couple of times to ensure true flushness). Do your cabin top painting job. (And you can recycle the broken bits of eyebrow teak as stir sticks!) Downsides of the eyebrow removal is you've modified the boat away from the original Cherubini design; and without the long eyebrow, the cabin top might look vertically "fat" and not as sleek. Upsides are you'll save a lot of time/effort in the future never needing to "brightwork" the eyebrows again; and there will be no chance of water finding its way into the deck core through the holes.

... Taping the portlight trim rings will be a challenge.

On my boat, I found that the old/oxidized portlight trim (white pvc type plastic) accepted paint very well. I didn't even sand, just scrubbed the surface with a scotch-bright pad and stiff brush. I used Rustoleum's Hammered Finish product. The paint looked well three years later with no peeling or chipping. Still firmly attached everywhere. It did oxidize on the surface, but I found that a bit of a dry scrub with a terry cloth type fabric removed the oxidation layer nicely, leaving a semi-gloss finish. I never waxed, so I had the option of painting again easily, which I did when I changed the color scheme from gold to pale metallic green. Any good one-part polyurethane I would think would adhere just as well to the port frames as the Rustoleum Hammered product. Painting the trim also has the advantage of maybe keeping them good shape for a longer time than continued direct UV exposure. If you use the same paint on the trim as the rest of the smooth cabin top gelcoat, you might get by with no taping/ masking. Just protect the clear plexiglass ports themselves from splatters (if brushing) or over spray (if spraying). Also, I found that 1/4" round self-stick "dots" that are available everywhere at stationary stores work great to mask the SS bolt heads that are along the port frame surface. The 1/4" doesn't cover the entire head, but most of it. And it keeps paint from getting into the phillips slots. Actually I just left the dots in place. Still on - nicely painted.

 

[rardiH36]

2-Part Spraying >> Safety

... The nicest paint job you will get is with a spray gun ...

Since Sandpiper spoke about both one and two-part polyurethane paints in his informative post, it just occurred to me mention a safety concern about 2-part spraying that I seemed to remember about. Since most of us (me included) aren't experts about every detail of paint products, I looked it up again. Basically, spraying 2-part polyurethanes without the right precautions is very hazardous. Getting the atomized mist into the lungs is highly toxic from the chemicals (isocyanate) and the two part catalyzing hardening. Spraying needs to be done only while wearing full-body protective suits and a positive pressure respirator mask with externally sourced (well away from the spraying area) pump-in air supply.

Anyway, be sure to investigate the details before air-spraying 2-part.

Brushing 2-parts is OK for the DIY'er when instructions are followed.

 

[jfurlong]

I can't testify to its longevity as it is a fairly recent job, but Interlux Interdeck is a one step non-skid, easily applied by brush. In the past I have done the two-part, sand shaker technique and the Interdeck is much easier. Initial results look good, but again, it's too soon to vouch for longevity.

 

[Nelsonhow]

I used Duraback on my previous H-27 and kigi Grip on my current H-30. kiwigrip was easier to work with, easier to clean up and easier to keep the deck clean.

I cleaned my deck with detergent and water and then did a very light sanding. Kiwi Grips says sanding isn't necessary. I masked the area and out the Kiwi-Grip on the deck with a notched trowell then rolled with the roller they supply. I found that using a notched trowll gave me jkust the right amount of Kiwi Grip to work with. Wait about 20 minutes (less if it's warm out or sunny) and pull the tape off. If you wait too long the tape will lift the edges of the Kiwigrip. You can't walk on it yet so work from the sides. A wast basket and lots of cloves and paper towels makes neat and quick work of it.

Came out GREAT and it easy to keep clean. Kiwi-Grip get my vote.

 

[jorgefife]

Dear Ed,
Fear not, I have new eyebrows on the ready, stained and varnished, compliments of the salvage yard

Dear Rardi,
Good suggestion, but I will put the eyebrows back on: want to keep the boat as original as possible

But now I have lots of advice, will be difficult to dexcide which way to go, but at least know where NOT to go
Thank you all for great advice: was able to take some good pointers, like which paint can be sanded and buffed, as Sandpiper mentioned

 

[sandpiper10471]

Whenever working with any of the modern complex chemical products - one and two part paints, two part varnishes, epoxies, polyesters, vinylesters, contact cements etc. - wear a good respirator and change the filter often. They wear out over time as well as exposure. I prefer the 3M masks. And I am not talking about the particulate filters here. If I spill acetone, I don't want to smell it.