E 15 Gasoline - Oh No!

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Jun 4, 2004
834
Hunter 340 Forked River, NJ
I saw in the paper today that the EPA has just approved adding 15% Ethanol to gasoline. If it were not for the availability of ethanol free aviation fuel, I might as well use my small outboard for an anchor.
The corn lobby has done it's work!
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
If it were not for the availability of ethanol free aviation fuel, I might as well use my small outboard for an anchor.
Throw it overboard. The aviation fuel is gone. It was eliminated a few months ago leaving thousands of pilots with auto gas STC's grounded or facing expensive conversion costs and endless FAA paperwork.
 

KD3PC

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Sep 25, 2008
1,069
boatless rainbow Callao, VA
the far reaches of the corn lobby, and their companions in crime the EPA....

If you think it is going to get better - you got to be dreaming...

One of the most clueless, if not THE, government agencies.

Leadership, or the lack there of trickles down....remember Lisa Jackson is the one who claimed that " all that oil has simply disappeared"...sure it did, Lisa...
 

CalebD

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Jun 27, 2006
1,479
Tartan 27' 1967 Nyack, NY
John,
I'm curious where you can find AV gas in NJ?
Roger,
Do you have a link(s) about the elimination of this fuel?

E10 was bad. E15 is just going to be worse. This is such profound stupidity.
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
Do you have a link(s) about the elimination of this fuel?
No, I just noticed the news item because I used to fly and manage aircraft and know what it is putting the owners through.

Try Google. There is also probably plenty of discussion on the aviation groups like Avweb.
 

JVB

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Jan 26, 2006
270
Schock Wavelength 24 Lake Murray, SC
I am still buying 100LL avgas at airports and 92 octane ethanol free autogas at a few airports and gas stations for my RV6a.
Here's a website which lists ethanol free gas stations in the U.S.:
http://pure-gas.org/
And here's one for airports:
http://airnav.com/fuel/

Thank the Obama administration for subsidizing corn growing, restricting imports of corn, and mandating ethanol in fuel. These all distort the market and should be eliminated.
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
Thank the Obama administration ..
The news item I saw was evidently wrong but I don't think my memory is wrong about the fact that this foolishness began long before anyone had even heard of Obama. I know he supports it but with the right wing media machine succeeding in getting him blamed for everything right down to the depth of the snow, he's got to pick his battles. Ethanol is now a train with too much momentum for him to lie down in front of it.
 
Jan 10, 2009
590
PDQ 32 Deale, MD
...this foolishness began long before anyone had even heard of Obama. I know he supports it but with the right wing media machine succeeding in getting him blamed for everything right down to the depth of the snow, he's got to pick his battles. Ethanol is now a train with too much momentum for him to lie down in front of it.
So true.

I have friends in TX that live in single family homes (5 acres) that still get rice subsidies, though the properties haven't been farmed in a generation.

Cutting back has never been easy. It's tough to stay on a diet, because it hurts. But we need one and the government, like a good doctor, should help us diet, not hand us a candy jar.
 
Nov 26, 2008
1,970
Endeavour 42 Cruisin
I think I read that 40% of corn production now goes to ethanol. And food corn prices are going up a lot. There is little doubt as to which party supports this mess and which party would like to stop it.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Its not any 'party' per se that benefits from the fraudulent regulation to impose diluting economical and high BTU/caloric content fuel with 'crap'; but, rather, its the individual congressional representatives and senators who directly benefit from the 'donations to re-election campaigns, etc.' that are lavished upon them by the ethanol etc. lobbyists. Regardless of party affiliation, they all are 'equal-opportunity' CROOKS.

Its the very same thing with ALL the 'special interests': "home builders" lobby, the "education lobby", the 'energy lobby', bankers lobby, the 'trial attorney's lobby, ... ad nauseum. ... and you ultimately PAY for all this.

Sack congress and bring back the king, then you only have to deal with ONE crook.
 
Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
As I understand it, the EPA has said that up to 15% ethanol is OK for newer cars.
Thats it. I don't think it is at all mandatory. If we could stop the crazy amount of subsidy for ethanol of course it would never end up in gasoline. We pay to create ethanol, then we pay for the damage it does wonderful.

You do know that 2 of South Dakotas 8 citizens are US senators. They get a lot of democracy there.
 

CalebD

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Jun 27, 2006
1,479
Tartan 27' 1967 Nyack, NY
JVB,
Thanks for the airnav.com link.
I found a number of non-commercial airports near me in NJ. I'd like to get some 92 or 100 non-ethanol fuel for the A4 in my boat.
What is the likelihood I would be allowed on any of these airports just to purchase fuel in jugs? I have no RV, pilots license, FAA clearance nor do I work for the wonderful DHS or TSA. So what likelihood do I have of being allowed on the premises to buy fuel?
I would guess there is a one in 10 chance but I'm wondering what your experiences have been.


I am still buying 100LL avgas at airports and 92 octane ethanol free autogas at a few airports and gas stations for my RV6a.
Here's a website which lists ethanol free gas stations in the U.S.:
http://pure-gas.org/
And here's one for airports:
http://airnav.com/fuel/

Thank the Obama administration for subsidizing corn growing, restricting imports of corn, and mandating ethanol in fuel. These all distort the market and should be eliminated.
 
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Dec 25, 2008
1,580
catalina 310 Elk River
The problem is that we have ignorant people running this country. They don't understand basic high school level chemistry. Their more interested in getting re-elected than solving our energy problems. We have not had a coherent energy policy since I don't know when.
What is not being told is the amount of fosil fuel that goes into the process of creating Ethanol. From the fertilizer to the fuel for all the tractors used in planting- harvesting process, to the electricity that is being generated with fosil fuel that runs the grain elevator lift motors.., to the energy needed for the fermenting process, ...this all adds up. It's all about Net Energy and this is what they don't get!!!
 
May 7, 2004
252
Hunter 38 Little River, SC
From BoatUS Magazine, Feb/March 2011, page 4, Editor's Note: " First generation (corn based) ethanol, I think, was a mistake," he said. "The energy-conversion ratios are at best very small. It's hard, once such a program is put in place, to deal with the lobbies that keep it going."

Do you know who said it? Mr. "Inconvenient Truth" Algor in his 2009 book "Our Choice".

Phil Herring, should we run this topic as a dual thread? One here as general info and another in the War Room?
 
Jun 12, 2010
936
Oday 22 Orleans Marina, NOLA
Ethanol usage started long ago when the search for alternatives to petroleum based fuels began as the result of oil shortages and the foreign dominance in the oil markets. The so called shortages really resulted from simple economics, the mid east could produce oil cheaper than any one else, so they dominated the market, and since the US was the wold's largest customer this gave inordinate power to that part of the world. The results of that have, as you know, had wide spread implications.


When I was in college back in the 80'a, I took a required class on World Environment. We were taught that that the decayed byproducts of ancient rain forests remained as oil deposits because the were not fully metabolized by microbes, resulting in a net oxygen surplus. In other words, if we were to find and burn all the oil in the world, that leftover O2 would be consumed and there would be a O2 deficit. This nonsense was prior to the invention of CO2 caused global warming, but the goal is the same – create a crisis that requires massive government intervention.


Ethanol started as a good idea, to solve a problem that did not really exist. If there is an oil shortage we should drill more wells. Using food for fuel when there is plenty of fuel and food prices are going up is stupid. If we have excess corn we should sell to nations that need it – hey, an export to help balance the trade deficit.


We need to challenge our representatives to explain WHY we need to blend ethanol into gasoline. I don't think a valid argument can be presented, but then, politics is seldom reasonable. The only benefit I can see is it can be used to buy votes in agriculture states and it can be used as a tool against the oil industry.


Doesn't Europe have E85? Welcome to the future.
 
Jun 12, 2010
936
Oday 22 Orleans Marina, NOLA
Here's a website which lists ethanol free gas stations in the U.S.:
http://pure-gas.org/
Thanks for that.

BUYER BEWARE.

There is a station in my town, it is listed on that site, and they have a sign that says: "This Lane Ethanol Fee" and another "This Lane 10% Ethanol"

I bought gas from their 'Ethanol Free" island and tested it, it was 10% ethanol.

Ethanol testing kits are available (I own one), or you can make your own.

I found these instructions with a quick search:

1. Find a glass jar.
2. Place water in it: about 10% - 20% of the jar's capacity.
3. Mark the jar where the water line is.
4. Fill the jar the rest of the way with gasoline.
5. Shake vigorously.
6. Check the amount of water in the jar to see if it is higher than when you started

The % the water line raises indices the % of ethanol/water. Note it will be less that 10% on E10 because not all the ethanol separates from the gasoline, but with pure gas the water line should not move.
 
Jun 4, 2004
834
Hunter 340 Forked River, NJ
Ethanol free gas in NJ

Last year I bought about 10 gallons of 100LL aviation fuel at a small public airport near Toms River, NJ - Robert Miller Airport. The guy with the fuel truck just comes out on the runway and you bring your red jugs out and he fills them. I think it was around $4+ per gallon but it is worth it. They first told me on the phone that there was a minimum purchase but the nice lady at the airport counter just sold me the 10 gallons.
I will have to call to see if they still have the ethanol free stuff this year. I could not find any other source for ethanol free fuel in NJ.
 
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