I am refinishing my rudder on a 1971 venture 222. It is literally made out of some sort of molded plastic. I have the nicks , rub marks etc sanded out but I am at a lose as to how to paint it. The only paint I know that sticks to plastic is the krylon and I'm not sure that is the best idea for marine use. Thoughts, Ideas. etc would be helpful. Thanks
Painting a molded plastic rudder
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Is it a white IdaSailor rudder?
http://www.idasailor.com/catalog/default.php
If so or even if it isn't maybe don't paint it. When I did the bottom of our boat I did put bottom paint on the IdaSailor centerboard as it is down in the water, but didn't put any on the rudder as we pull it to the surface at night and it is easy to reach to clean.
If it is the IdaSailor there is no need for a barrier coat if you were going to put on bottom paint.
c ya,
Sum
Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID
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http://www.idasailor.com/catalog/default.php
If so or even if it isn't maybe don't paint it. When I did the bottom of our boat I did put bottom paint on the IdaSailor centerboard as it is down in the water, but didn't put any on the rudder as we pull it to the surface at night and it is easy to reach to clean.
If it is the IdaSailor there is no need for a barrier coat if you were going to put on bottom paint.
c ya,
Sum
Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID
Our Mac Pages
Mac-Venture Links
MY original hard plastic (hollow) rudder was painted with ablative bottom paint to match the bottom line.
I might just use Rustolumn oil based paint but give it two weeks or more to dry.
I might just use Rustolumn oil based paint but give it two weeks or more to dry.
I did some FG repairs on both centerboard and rudder for my 26S, and painted both with Rustoleum spray paint. That was 3 years ago, and they still look like new except where I have worn the paint off the bottom of the CB, dragging it in thin water. Dried quickly- reinstalled both the day after painting. -Paul
Could be.......
Well I'm not saying it is for sure 100% but if it aint I'd be surprised. The only thing that is throwing me off is mine is not shaped like the one they say is supposed to be on a V 22 / 222.
The one they show has a chunk missing off the corner where as mine looks like this,
Thanks for answer. I wont worry about it then, just one more question on it. What do you use to keep it clean?
OH BTW folks I finally got an answer to the question of is it a v 22 or a v222. is apparently an early model v 222. now i have to go change all my profiles LOL
PS the lower rudder looks a lot better then in this pic as I have been sanding it down etc ,. Ill upload pics to the blog after I get some more work done. :dance:
Well I'm not saying it is for sure 100% but if it aint I'd be surprised. The only thing that is throwing me off is mine is not shaped like the one they say is supposed to be on a V 22 / 222.
The one they show has a chunk missing off the corner where as mine looks like this,
Thanks for answer. I wont worry about it then, just one more question on it. What do you use to keep it clean?
OH BTW folks I finally got an answer to the question of is it a v 22 or a v222. is apparently an early model v 222. now i have to go change all my profiles LOL
PS the lower rudder looks a lot better then in this pic as I have been sanding it down etc ,. Ill upload pics to the blog after I get some more work done. :dance:
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Hollow or solid?
I THINK this one is solid as it sounds solid and I've sanded so much off corners and edges to get the nicks out if it was hollow I think I would have hit the center by now.
I assume this is a fiberglass rudder, right? The lower section that sits in the water all the time should be painted with antifouling paint - usually the same stuff you put on your hull. If it doesn't stay in the water all of the time, then you can paint the part that does get wet with an epoxy white paint (it won't blister). Above the waterline you can use something like Interlux' Brightside urethane (one part paint), or you can use gelcoat, which is what it was originally made with.
NOT FROM www.idasailor.com
OK Joel emailed me back which I thought was really cool what with it being a holiday weekend and a Sunday to boot,. its definitely not one of theirs. He specifically asked that I let that be known, so I am doing so.
OK Joel emailed me back which I thought was really cool what with it being a holiday weekend and a Sunday to boot,. its definitely not one of theirs. He specifically asked that I let that be known, so I am doing so.
New question, measurements for rudder
Some one out here has a v 22 with a correct rudder, Please someone share the correct measurements. I'm looking at this mess and coming to the conclusion it might be easier and cheaper to make one from scratch since Breaking out another thousand is not an option.
Some one out here has a v 22 with a correct rudder, Please someone share the correct measurements. I'm looking at this mess and coming to the conclusion it might be easier and cheaper to make one from scratch since Breaking out another thousand is not an option.
Maybe these pictures will help: Sorry - after I posted I saw that these were for the keel. I'll see if I have the rudder but I will leave the keel here (my bad - sorry)
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The rudder is an airfoil shape like an airplane wing, so not too easy to get right. Here is a link to one that Dan made.....Some one out here has a v 22 with a correct rudder, Please someone share the correct measurements. I'm looking at this mess and coming to the conclusion it might be easier and cheaper to make one from scratch since Breaking out another thousand is not an option.
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-other-people/Other People-index.html
... one thing I wouldn't myself try making unless I really had to.
What is wrong with yours? I just remember the nicks so far, so must of missed the problem. We have an IdaSailor rudder and there are some pretty big chunks out of it from hitting the prop, won't go into a lot of detail how that happened
, and it still works great for us.Good luck,
Sum
I've got two different types of rudders, so maybe I can help clear this up.
My earlier (1980) Mac 25 has a rudder that appears to be two fiberglass pieces, joined together by an aluminum plate. Each piece has a cutout.When the rudder is fully extended, the cutouts mate up to each other.
My later Macs (1984 and 1985) have the upper part of the rudder made up of an aluminum shaft. The lower section does not have a cutout in it, as it doesn't need one.
If the upper half of your rudder is made of aluminum, I suspect that the assembly is of a later type.
Am I close?? Perhaps a pic of the entire rudder would be helpful. Meanwhile, I will try to get some pics of the two different rudder styles on my boats.
Not sure
It acts like plastic but I'm not sure. I've never sanded any fiberglass exept the inside hull and it's not showing a weave so I'm thinking it is plastic. At this point it is a moote point since I've decided to just make a new one. Thanks any way
NOT a problem!
Bob, Once the weather warms up, the keel is the next thing to do so those photos will come in real handy! Is it OK with you if I post them on my blog for fast reference? I promise to give credit to you .
What's not wrong with it is ........
After I posted the request for measurements I did some checking,. Found an old thread, other then this one being 2 inches to short, 2 inches to narrow at the wide part and to thin, not a cotton pickin thing. LOL
Joel from ida has been a real dear. Obviously he would prefer to sell me a new rig for this and if i was swimming in money I might be willing to Break Out Another Thousand but my bank account being what it is.. gotta do it my self,.
Here is the second response from him.
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]That is an original equipment upper rudderhead, tiller brackets and an aftermarket tiller (not our tiller, either).
It looks like a previous owner, in a fit of false economy, welded two pieces of aluminum to the original rudder cheek plates to extend them downward, allowing the Hobie rudder blade to be used and to keep the kick up configuration. I say false economy because the amount of work and the cost of welding the aluminum probably was close to the cost of simply buying a new blade from Macgregor in the first place.
Also, because the upper rudderhead has been drilled in two locations, it indicates that the lower gudgeon on the boat may have been damaged and relocated, requiring the upper pintle to be moved to accomodate the modified rudder assembly. Perhaps not, though not sure why they would drill the rudderhead twice otherwise. On a side note, the extra set of upper holes is probably how the water got into the rudder and caused the core rot you're dealing with too.
Unless your time is free, I would not spend much energy or materials trying to fix the various core rot and other problems that you have with those rudder parts.
I wouldn't trust that conglomeration to get you home safely on a big trip, but if you're day sailing with help nearby, a nice day on-the-water can be worth the risk.
Good luck, let me know if can help in some way further.
Fair winds,
-Joel[/FONT]
I had not thought about them being aluminum. How do you tell aluminum from SS if a magnet don't stick to either?
I finally got pics posted on blog. (jan 2 post rudder remix)
On one hand I could cut out the rot and redo this one, which is one heck of a lot of cuts to get it all out when i consider having to cut several more spots in the glass. or just make a new one and glass it, which is what I think I am going to do. The question becomes what kind of wood do I get? I'm thinking cypress. Have to check prices .
The rudder is an airfoil shape like an airplane wing, so not too easy to get right. Here is a link to one that Dan made.....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-other-people/Other People-index.html
... one thing I wouldn't myself try making unless I really had to.
What is wrong with yours? I just remember the nicks so far, so must of missed the problem. We have an IdaSailor rudder and there are some pretty big chunks out of it from hitting the prop, won't go into a lot of detail how that happened
Good luck,
Sum
After I posted the request for measurements I did some checking,. Found an old thread, other then this one being 2 inches to short, 2 inches to narrow at the wide part and to thin, not a cotton pickin thing. LOL
Joel from ida has been a real dear. Obviously he would prefer to sell me a new rig for this and if i was swimming in money I might be willing to Break Out Another Thousand but my bank account being what it is.. gotta do it my self,.
Here is the second response from him.
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]That is an original equipment upper rudderhead, tiller brackets and an aftermarket tiller (not our tiller, either).
It looks like a previous owner, in a fit of false economy, welded two pieces of aluminum to the original rudder cheek plates to extend them downward, allowing the Hobie rudder blade to be used and to keep the kick up configuration. I say false economy because the amount of work and the cost of welding the aluminum probably was close to the cost of simply buying a new blade from Macgregor in the first place.
Also, because the upper rudderhead has been drilled in two locations, it indicates that the lower gudgeon on the boat may have been damaged and relocated, requiring the upper pintle to be moved to accomodate the modified rudder assembly. Perhaps not, though not sure why they would drill the rudderhead twice otherwise. On a side note, the extra set of upper holes is probably how the water got into the rudder and caused the core rot you're dealing with too.
Unless your time is free, I would not spend much energy or materials trying to fix the various core rot and other problems that you have with those rudder parts.
I wouldn't trust that conglomeration to get you home safely on a big trip, but if you're day sailing with help nearby, a nice day on-the-water can be worth the risk.
Good luck, let me know if can help in some way further.
Fair winds,
-Joel[/FONT]
I had not thought about them being aluminum. How do you tell aluminum from SS if a magnet don't stick to either?
I finally got pics posted on blog. (jan 2 post rudder remix)
On one hand I could cut out the rot and redo this one, which is one heck of a lot of cuts to get it all out when i consider having to cut several more spots in the glass. or just make a new one and glass it, which is what I think I am going to do. The question becomes what kind of wood do I get? I'm thinking cypress. Have to check prices .
Sweet
VERY nice looking piece of equipment. I was looking at those. I can buy a LOT of boat material for the 800 bucks plus one for mine would set me back.
This is a picture of the Idasailor rudder for my mac 25
VERY nice looking piece of equipment. I was looking at those. I can buy a LOT of boat material for the 800 bucks plus one for mine would set me back.
Need a BIG favor
Did some cruising and found a place to get the wood for the rudder ( 12" x 1 1/2" x 6 1/2 ft actual size) for 20 plus shipping, don't know how much that is going to cost me yet. He normally don't fool with small orders like this but he said if i send him a fax with the dimensions he will send me the information on shipping.
The only trouble is setting my phone lines up for fax is a royal pain in the tush! They are on other side of room. Would one of you guys be willing to send a fax to the lumber company for me? If so please PM me for information.
Did some cruising and found a place to get the wood for the rudder ( 12" x 1 1/2" x 6 1/2 ft actual size) for 20 plus shipping, don't know how much that is going to cost me yet. He normally don't fool with small orders like this but he said if i send him a fax with the dimensions he will send me the information on shipping.
The only trouble is setting my phone lines up for fax is a royal pain in the tush! They are on other side of room. Would one of you guys be willing to send a fax to the lumber company for me? If so please PM me for information.
Just got a look at your blog again. A lot of great work on that!
As I suspected, it looks a lot like the older rudder style I have. The sections are joined by two pieces of aluminum and through-bolted. You should be able to make a replacement lower section if you have the dimensions.
As I suspected, it looks a lot like the older rudder style I have. The sections are joined by two pieces of aluminum and through-bolted. You should be able to make a replacement lower section if you have the dimensions.
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