V22 or V 222

[UseDaGreyMatter]

I keep hearing people say she is a 222 since she has the pop top. Could be....
According to the image at sailboat data, they are correct.
At this same sight, they show the motor well as the 22. The v222 does not show a motor well.
Which is she? I don't know. From what I hear Macgregor made a lot of variations. Someone probably ordered both as an additional option.
If any one has information to solve this mystery an answer would be appreciated, if nothing else just for posterity' s sake.

Thanks

 

[Freedom77]

My '71 V-222 hull # 472 had the built in motor well. The V-222 designated that it had a pop top. You have a 222. I think the later 222's came without the motor well to make more room in the cockpit and came with the kickup motor bracket. The 22 was later discontinued and the pop top 222 was the only model you could get. A later model of the V-24 was the V-224 pop top. The V-25 amd M-25 was strictly pop top. The M-25 had a lighter displacement than the V-25 and was more tender. P.S. I was the MacGregor dealer here for a couple of years and I'm pretty familiar with all the boats pre Mac 26. If ya need any help or advice I'll be happy to share what little knowledge I have. Fair Winds and Full Sails...

I'm a Texican. Have ya ever been to Muleshoe?

 

[mklein@iowatelecom.net]

Quote " The M-25 had a lighter displacement than the V-25 and was more tender." What year did they change? Thanks Mark

 

[UseDaGreyMatter]

Thanks

My '71 V-222 hull # 472 had the built in motor well. The V-222 designated that it had a pop top. You have a 222. I think the later 222's came without the motor well to make more room in the cockpit and came with the kickup motor bracket. The 22 was later discontinued and the pop top 222 was the only model you could get. A later model of the V-24 was the V-224 pop top. The V-25 amd M-25 was strictly pop top. The M-25 had a lighter displacement than the V-25 and was more tender. P.S. I was the MacGregor dealer here for a couple of years and I'm pretty familiar with all the boats pre Mac 26. If ya need any help or advice I'll be happy to share what little knowledge I have. Fair Winds and Full Sails...

I'm a Texican. Have ya ever been to Muleshoe?

Thanks, It is good to know, now all I have to do is change all my profiles, LOL

Muleshoe? Nope. we are actually in SW Oklahoma for now. I looked up Muleshoe, you re not all that far away from us.

For now mainly what I need is some more 60- 70's degree days like we had this last week, to get this fixed. the cold weather is really putting a cramp in my fix it style.LOL I have this fantasy of being out side working on her unhindered by such mundane things as weather and cold temps. ROLFMAO

have been inside working on the rudder and washing what I suspect is a Genoa, while I wait for warmer weather.

My main thing I'm just not real sure about is getting her up on blocks so I can drop the keel, I KNOW it is going to need real work out. A neighbor crawled under and said he saw holes. , been looking online for ideas on keel haulers and how to set it up. thinking blocks with 4x 6 across them under hull so I can slide trailer out and get her sanded, painted etc.
priced screw jacks at wally world , they will lift to 15 3/4 inches so that will get us 2/3 of the way up. figure once I get her that far up , put one of the jacks on a cinder block and raise her up the rest of the way then block her good and solid and get er done.

 

[Sumner]

...My main thing I'm just not real sure about is getting her up on blocks so I can drop the keel, I KNOW it is going to need real work out. ....

I'd veto the screw jacks. If you search here you will see lots of info on using the trailer itself to do most of the work and there are posts on here and other places on lowering the keel down with floor jacks.

What will the boat be on, pavement, grass, ????. I would be very careful if you are doing it on the yard and the ground is froze now and it thaws later and becomes soft.

I made stands in a couple hours....

.... out of wood that work well and then made a couple.....

...... more when I painted the bottom .

Here is a link to one set and it also explains how to use the trailer....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/outside-3.html

....and here is the link to the last ones and also how I painted the bottom....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/outside-39.html

....good luck and be very careful and do this on a flat area.

I used......

.... a strap to some side supports I made one time to hold the front up while I drug the trailer out from under the boat after removing the tires/wheels. The last time I....

.... used my car lift. Out side you can do the same by blocking the front a couple different places as you pull the trailer out.

Please use concrete blocks instead of cinder blocks if you use either of those and orient the holes in the blocks up and down, but you probably already knew that,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac-Venture Links

 

[UseDaGreyMatter]

Boat supports

I'd veto the screw jacks.

How come? Would bottle jacks be better? We have floor jacks but I'm not sure that will come closer to raising it enough.

What will the boat be on, pavement, grass, ????. I would be very careful if you are doing it on the yard and the ground is froze now and it thaws later and becomes soft.

It does not normally get cold enough here long enough to actually freeze the ground like it does up north. It is on my driveway which is dirt and rock. it is plenty hard enough to stand the weight distribution. the top several inches are hard like cement as the guys can vouch for having dug it out for a new sewer line a couple of years ago. (Other side of driveway)

I made stands in a couple hours....

I saw that, you sir, are one AWESOME carpenter. What it boils down to is space, the city, parking and money. I have a two car driveway. To have room to do all that I'd have to put the boat in the yard which I don't want to do for the same reasons you mentioned of the yard being to soft OR park the car on the street, which is not a good idea for more then a night or two either OR go rent a storage space that they would let me rig something like this up. (already looked, choice is money for boat repair or money for storage.like I told lady the boat is taking me where I want to go, storage receipts won't do that. lol) That does not begin to go into the price for all that dimensional lumber.

What I have in mind is a variation of your site and the fix it and sail it book. blocks on each side past the trailer line, 4x 4 or 4x6 under boat ( already have 3 or 4 on hand) with the custom cut board under not only the stern but between bow and keel, pull out the trailer then put extra blocks under the boat for extra support. The strap it down with 2 or 3 heavy duty 1500 to 2000 lb load straps and ground screws, (Aka Hurricane straps) which I can use again later to do bottom where ever I end up, are easily transportable and serve double duty in other areas. For extra safety I am seriously considering putting larger boards ( scrap ply wood squares) under blocks for added weight distribution.

Please use concrete blocks instead of cinder blocks if you use either of those and orient the holes in the blocks up and down, but you probably already knew that, Sum

Ok confused here. I thought ALL concrete blocks that had holes in them were cinder blocks?

 

[Sumner]

The driveway sounds fine if it is flat or nearly so side to side and end to end. The supports I made would take up the same or less space than blocking in other forms and aren't a major job to make.

If you are trying to just drop the keel it seems that I've seen people do that with the trailer under the boat to some degree. Hopefully someone will post pictures or a link to pictures doing that.

You really don't need a bunch of jacks to get the boats off the trailer. Drop the tongue all the way to the ground. That raises the back of the boat. Block the stern in that position stern so that it can't go back down. Raise the tongue. I'd go part way with the tongue jack and then further up with a floor jack. I would recommend one larger than those small $30 ones. Harbor Freight has some for....

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-ton-super-heavy-duty-floor-jack-34271.html

...for $80.00 and I've seen them for less and I have one. You will use it with the keel also. The reason for the jack is that you possibly could damage the tongue jack as raising the front of the trailer high enough to get the boat up and level might put too much of a strain on it. You could also use a bottle jack for this.

Once you have the boat up level with the ground block the front of the boat. Now lower the trailer and remove the wheels/tires and drag it out. This is where you will have to reposition the front blocks a couple times to get the axle past them. If your springs are shot (rusted and sagging) this might be a good time to replace them. They are cheap. Drop the springs and remove the axle and now you can just pull the trailer straight out. That is the second way.

The key to this is that the back needs to be supported very well and while you are moving the front blocks it has to keep the boat from rolling over. I hate to give info on this as you are dealing with a load that can kill you and you need to be very careful, but hundreds of people have done this.

As I said I think you can block only the back of the boat and then drop the trailer enough to remove or at least lower the keel,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac-Venture Links

 

[Sumner]

On the blocks the concrete are heavier. Go to a lumber yard and they can show you both. Cinder blocks have been know to fail at once with no warning. People have used them, but for the difference in price I wouldn't. In fact I would only go with wood blocking myself. Consider the consequences to you and the boat if something failed. You are doing the right thing in having backup blocking,

Sum

 

[timebandit]

When I replace my bunks I just lowered the front of the trailer and blocked the back then raised the front and blocked the boat and then removed the wheeles and I had enuff room to do the bunks. I think that if I was just going to do the bottom I would not remove the trailer at all. I lowered the iron keel on to the trailer to remove excess weight on the blocks.

 

[Freedom77]

Thanks, It is good to know, now all I have to do is change all my profiles, LOL

Muleshoe? Nope. we are actually in SW Oklahoma for now. I looked up Muleshoe, you re not all that far away from us.

For now mainly what I need is some more 60- 70's degree days like we had this last week, to get this fixed. the cold weather is really putting a cramp in my fix it style.LOL I have this fantasy of being out side working on her unhindered by such mundane things as weather and cold temps. ROLFMAO

have been inside working on the rudder and washing what I suspect is a Genoa, while I wait for warmer weather.

My main thing I'm just not real sure about is getting her up on blocks so I can drop the keel, I KNOW it is going to need real work out. A neighbor crawled under and said he saw holes. , been looking online for ideas on keel haulers and how to set it up. thinking blocks with 4x 6 across them under hull so I can slide trailer out and get her sanded, painted etc.
priced screw jacks at wally world , they will lift to 15 3/4 inches so that will get us 2/3 of the way up. figure once I get her that far up , put one of the jacks on a cinder block and raise her up the rest of the way then block her good and solid and get er done.

My grampa lived in muleshoe. products were cotton and hardshell Baptists. Now live near Las Vegas. In regard to jacking up the boat. You're on the right track. When I did it I put two oil drums and a couple of 4x4 under the stern. Then I used two hydralic "bottle" car jacks just forward of the keel with a wood block on top to keep from punching a hole in it. Used first jack to elevate the boat off the bunks and pulled the trailer forward then set the second jack and did the same. Just walked the trailer out from under the boat and then blocked her up forward. Built a flat cart with heavy casters and put uprights to recieve the keel so it wouldn't tip over. Heavy S.O.B. On my Venture 21 I had a vacant lot and built a frame and used coffing hoists to lift her and pull out the trailer and set her on blocks. Hope this helps. Fail Winds and Full Sails...

 

[UseDaGreyMatter]

Thank You

The driveway sounds fine if it is flat or nearly so side to side and end to end. The supports I made would take up the same or less space than blocking in other forms and aren't a major job to make.

If you are trying to just drop the keel it seems that I've seen people do that with the trailer under the boat to some degree. Hopefully someone will post pictures or a link to pictures doing that.

You really don't need a bunch of jacks to get the boats off the trailer. Drop the tongue all the way to the ground. That raises the back of the boat. Block the stern in that position stern so that it can't go back down. Raise the tongue. I'd go part way with the tongue jack and then further up with a floor jack. I would recommend one larger than those small $30 ones. Harbor Freight has some for....

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-ton-super-heavy-duty-floor-jack-34271.html

...for $80.00 and I've seen them for less and I have one. You will use it with the keel also. The reason for the jack is that you possibly could damage the tongue jack as raising the front of the trailer high enough to get the boat up and level might put too much of a strain on it. You could also use a bottle jack for this.

Once you have the boat up level with the ground block the front of the boat. Now lower the trailer and remove the wheels/tires and drag it out. This is where you will have to reposition the front blocks a couple times to get the axle past them. If your springs are shot (rusted and sagging) this might be a good time to replace them. They are cheap. Drop the springs and remove the axle and now you can just pull the trailer straight out. That is the second way.

The key to this is that the back needs to be supported very well and while you are moving the front blocks it has to keep the boat from rolling over. I hate to give info on this as you are dealing with a load that can kill you and you need to be very careful, but hundreds of people have done this.

As I said I think you can block only the back of the boat and then drop the trailer enough to remove or at least lower the keel,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac-Venture Links

I just realized the part of all that (and other sites) that was confusing me. Some where and I know I have read this more then one time, I kept completely spacing out on the remove the tires part! DAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!


can I plead a complete senior citizen moment at my young and tender age?


raising the boat is both a keel thing and a paint thing. If you look close at the first photos of bottom in blog, it is a mess. Since eventually I want her in salt water and once I get to coast, unless I sale her, I don't really plan on putting her back on trailer to often. i'm thinking a complete redo all the way to gel coat, barrier paint the whole thing just to be on safe side so I may as well do it here where being on the hard does not cost me marina fees. have heard a lot about that iturelix stuff so i am thinking i will probably go with that due to the eventual salt water usage. Also even though it cost the earth I'm seriously considering copper. If they make one for trailer sailors that does not have to hit the water soon after application, Haven't had a chance to research all that yet. Main thing is Im a major blister-phobe when it comes to preventive and plan on staying that way what with the aggravation and price of fixing those nasty little buggers. Out of all the criteria i set for finding a boat that was the one thing that would be a deal beaker in a heart beat.
oh almost forgot, yes, the drive is nice and flat all ways around so i'm good to go there.

 

[Sumner]

...... i'm thinking a complete redo all the way to gel coat, barrier paint the whole thing just to be on safe side so I may as well do it here where being on the hard does not cost me marina fees. have heard a lot about that iturelix stuff so i am thinking i will probably go with that due to the eventual salt water usage. Also even though it cost the earth I'm seriously considering copper. If they make one for trailer sailors that does not have to hit the water soon after application, Haven't had a chance to research all that yet........

Read this page....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/outside-39.html

...and you will see the Sea Hawk products that I used. I was very happy with them and the easy of application......

...... especially the Tuff Stuff for the barrier coat. At $120 to do the bottom it has a better price than all of the other products I looked at and has also a similar application compared to them.

Sea Hawk's.......

.... Cukote Biocide Plus Self-Polishing bottom paint wasn't cheap, but it works well on a trailer boat as there are no restrictions on how long or when the boat is in the water. I found it to be very hard and doesn't rub off on the trailer bunks and/or me like what others have said about ablative bottom paints. Maybe it will later, but it hasn't so far. We weren't in the water in Florida that long, just a little under 4 weeks, but barnacles had started to grow on a couple unpainted brackets that were in the water, but the bottom was clean of them and slime when we pulled the boat out. At this point I'm very happy with it since it doesn't seem to rub off easy and it seems to work.

I think you are smart doing the bottom up front. A lot easier than dealing with blisters later,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac-Venture Links

 

[timebandit]

Wow!

If I had a set up like that I would just lift the boatup with the chainplates on the sides and blance it fore and arft with the front and rear plates.

 

[Sumner]

Wow!

If I had a set up like that I would just lift the boatup with the chainplates on the sides and blance it fore and arft with the front and rear plates.

That might work, but I get mighty nervous with something in the air over me that can kill me. I like lots of back up under the boat and was happy about making a couple more stands to go under it. The boat also was almost fully loaded for the trip at this point.

I have had a couple of my car buddies loose friends when cars they were working on fell on them and the other day a friend of mine back east was starting a street rod he has with a remote starter that he had just installed. He was in front of it in the shop and when the car started it was in gear and drove into him and ran him into the wall. Luckily his son was there and could get the car off of him. He is in the hospital with a pelvic that is badly broken.

Hopefully now it will be a long time before the boat comes back off the trailer. I also only have about 4-5 inches on each side of the boat getting it into the shop past the door. I kick myself for not putting in a wider door up front. I can get the Mac on the trailer in, but not my car hauler trailer.

c ya,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac-Venture Links

 

[UseDaGreyMatter]

How much paint?

So how much paint does it take for each layer to do a V 222?

 

[UseDaGreyMatter]

Probably a stupid question but......

Read this page....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/outside-39.html

...and you will see the Sea Hawk products that I used. I was very happy with them and the easy of application......



...... especially the Tuff Stuff for the barrier coat. At $120 to do the bottom it has a better price than all of the other products I looked at and has also a similar application compared to them.

Sea Hawk's.......



.... Cukote Biocide Plus Self-Polishing bottom paint wasn't cheap, but it works well on a trailer boat as there are no restrictions on how long or when the boat is in the water. I found it to be very hard and doesn't rub off on the trailer bunks and/or me like what others have said about ablative bottom paints. Maybe it will later, but it hasn't so far. We weren't in the water in Florida that long, just a little under 4 weeks, but barnacles had started to grow on a couple unpainted brackets that were in the water, but the bottom was clean of them and slime when we pulled the boat out. At this point I'm very happy with it since it doesn't seem to rub off easy and it seems to work.

I think you are smart doing the bottom up front. A lot easier than dealing with blisters later,

Sum

since your boat was already gel coated / painted did you use the primer?

 

[Sumner]

since your boat had already gel coated / painted did you use the primer?

I'm not sure I understand the question. The boat had the orginal gel coat no paint. I sanded it and then used the Tuff Stuff which is a barrier coat and then the bottom paint for the growth protection. That was all, but the bottom paints have to be applied to the Tuff Stuff withing a time window, which is pretty common for all of them.

I was able to put on 2 coats of barrier paint and 3 coats of bottom paint over that all in one long, long day, but only because it is so dry here and I had the shop pretty warm from the solar heat. I doubt you could put on 5 coats in the same day where you are as you wouldn't have the proper dry time between them. This isn't a big deal, but read the tech sheets to see between which coats that you could go over night. Proper application is key to get these paints to adhere to the boat and each other properly.

I would download the tech data sheets for any paint you considered and read them and see what the application steps are. I was unsure of a couple things and Sea Hawk and the Bottom Paint Store cleared those up quickly on the phone.

The Tuff Stuff required the fewest coats of any barrier paint I found and the application was easy compare to some of the others. Is it as good or better? I can't tell you for sure, but I feel good about it for our needs.

Good luck,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac-Venture Links

 

[Freedom77]

How Many Cases Of Beer Does It Take To Paint A Boat? Was the hull already bottom painted? Are you keeping it in the water? I have owned, or Freedom has owned me, for 34 years. Always kept her on the trailer and launched. Occasionally anchored for a weeks stay. Never bottom painted. Saw no need. Extra expense and maintenance. Fair Winds and Full Sails...

 

[UseDaGreyMatter]

Probably

How Many Cases Of Beer Does It Take To Paint A Boat? Was the hull already bottom painted? Are you keeping it in the water? I have owned, or Freedom has owned me, for 34 years. Always kept her on the trailer and launched. Occasionally anchored for a weeks stay. Never bottom painted. Saw no need. Extra expense and maintenance. Fair Winds and Full Sails...

From the looks of the hull she has had bottom pain ton her, different colors are why I believe so. the long term idea is once we get out of this land locked region to spend as much time on board as possible at the coast once we get there. Have not put any thing in concrete yet but thas the plan.

 

[Freedom77]

From the looks of the hull she has had bottom pain ton her, different colors are why I believe so. the long term idea is once we get out of this land locked region to spend as much time on board as possible at the coast once we get there. Have not put any thing in concrete yet but thas the plan.

which coast are you planning to visit. All of our ocean sailing was in the Pacific. Reminds of a story I heard. Coast Guardsman was in a bar. Guy asks, "where are you stationed?" Coastie replies, "Denver, Colorado." Guy says, "How do you guard the coast from there?" Coastie replies, "Have you noticed any of it missing?" HOOK 'EM HORNS. Fair Winds and Full Sails...