Difficult situation... ideas please

[drh1965]

In the attachment, I show the situation I frequently face on departure from the docks. The wind and prop walk both fight me. When the wind is 15+, I usually just back all the way out of the marina. I can make the turn as shown only by using pretty large blasts of thrust (something I hate to do for many reasons: wear on tranny, risky, etc). I've also tried attaching a line to my stern cleat, wrapping it around the dock cleat at the end of the finger, holding the end in my hand feeding out line as I back. This doesn't work very well as the bow wants to swing to quickly into the piling. I'm sure this is a common situation and there has to be a better way to do this?

By the way, the dark dashes on the boat and the dock are cleats. The dark solid line astern of my boat is a broken dock attached to a jetty with nasty pilings strewn all over.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Since you only have a few boats to your port side, why not use the port prop walk on your boat to you advantage and keep backing out. Makes life a lot easier.

 

[RichH]

If you have a right-handed prop, then (for me) the probable 'best' exit would be a reverse 'pivot turn'. The more prop walk the better the pivot turn.

1. engage the boat in forward ... get the boat 'moving', dont pussy-foot, the amount of forward speed is important. As soon as the boat has 'moderate' speed immediately shift into neutral. Assuming a floating dock with vinyl rub rails, let the boat's portside 'scrub' along the dock.
2. When the boats stern is nearing the end of the slip, quickly shift into reverse while the boat is still moving forward with 'some speed' on, and immediately apply HIGH rpm while turning the rudder to hard starboard.

This should 'kick' the stern to port, the wind should continue to turn the bow in the desired direction, to stb. The aim is to get the stern, more or less, nearly in front of the boat to your portside (left), the bow will go to stb. by wind pressure.
With a pivot turn (using prop-walk), you are steering only the 'aft end of the boat' by 'prop walk', the wind will do all the rest.
Obviously you need to master the pivot turn in an open area before you do this in a tight place like a fairway in front of a slip. The secret to doing a pivot turn in 'tight' places is to do it 'fast' and do it with HIGH rpm - takes practice.

http://www.cruising.sailingcourse.com/docking.htm
http://www.videos.sailingcourse.com/pivot_turn.htm

;-)

 

[Tim R.]

I would think the wind would help you by blowing the bow to port as you back out.

To overcome prop walk, try this:

Once the boat gets moving you should be able to steer. Shift into reverse and give the throttle a good rev to start the boat moving. Shift back into N and try to gain steerage. Give the boat another burst in reverse and immediately shift back to N. Once you get steerage you should be able to shift into reverse and gently apply throttle.

Practice this in open water first. It does take a little time to master.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Rich, I think he is bow in and backing out. Gather this from port prop walk and the comment about "pilings astern". Backing in would probably present more problems than backing out. But going out forward would be a piece a cake.

I think the solution is something that was tried, pivoting on that dock cleat. But the line on the boat has to be through a block more amidships.

 

[Rick Sylvester]

If you're bow in

(I'm not sure from your diagram and you don't say) why not just back clear of the slip and STOP. Don't try to turn. Let the breeze blow your bow down. When you're turned enough engage in forward and head out.

If the wind blows your bow to starboard just wait until you're turned enough until you can engage reverse and back down the fairway. I assume your boat backs under control from what's in your post.

I have the same arrangement except I'm the first boat next to the quay. Never had to warp around. I only need enough power to clear the slip. Let the breeze do your turning for you. You do have to be patient, but if you know what your boat will do ahead of time then it's only a question of waiting for it to happen. Like you, it pains me to see skippers apply massive amounts of throttle unnecessarily and then still get into trouble.

Naturally, if there's a current all bets may be off (I had that big-time at our previous marina.)

 

[Rick D]

Maybe You Already Have The Solution

I had a situation like that for 20 years. Except, there was a seawall to starboard. I either backed all the way out the finger or sometimes backed in to the slip and headed out. Sure gave me a lot of reversing practice! Good luck.

 

[RichH]

Rich, I think he is bow in and backing out. Gather this from port prop walk and the comment about "pilings astern". Backing in would probably present more problems than backing out. But going out forward would be a piece a cake.

I think the solution is something that was tried, pivoting on that dock cleat. But the line on the boat has to be through a block more amidships.

Ooops I 'misread' the drawing.
If bow in, the only possible way is to 'warp' the boat using the outer-most dock cleat and midship cleat .... the control line 'doubled' or 'looped' to the cleat so it can be quickly/easily released at the dock cleat from the boat, the control line run all the way back to the cockpit, etc. Id warp the boat around and let her lay up on the pilings, dock in front of the boat on the same finger dock until I could 'release'. A pivot turn will be of no benefit in this situation.

 

[Alex Dare]

back in

I'd back in to the slip. Start a ways out so you've got some water moving across the rudder and have good steerage. You'll have the wind at your stern which makes things a whole lot nicer as the bow will just weather vane. You should be able to either drive her right in or if it's really blowing, slowly creep up next to the leeward outside piling. throw a stern line on it and continue in reverse to warp the boat around the piling and into the slip.
About the trickiest and most risky thing you can do is dock bow first and then try and back all the way down the thoroughfare with the wind on the nose. If the breeze catches the bow one side or the other, you may not have time or room to catch it.

 

[heart of gold]

Boy do I know your issue. I have a very similar slip. I try to make the maneuver when it is calm. It blows up in the afternoon here so I always try to leave in the early morning when ever possible and return the same. That is not always possible, I know. I have the slip beside you to port bow in.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Back in and forward out

I have the same situation at my slip. I use prop walk to swing the stern to port when I dock and then just motor out when leaving.
Can you dock stern in/bow out?
My technique:
to dock I motor slowly down the port side of the fairway. That would be the wrong side of the road if driving. Slowly is the key. Upon reaching the slip before mine I turn (speed of turn is wind dependent) to starboard and shift into neutral. Once the stern is centered on what will be the starboard bow piling I shift into reverse and let prop walk swing the stern into the slip. Then it is just grabbing the lines and securing the boat.
to leave drop the loose dock lines and pull the bow upwind.shift into forward and drop the bow line. Motor out just like a car leaving a parking place.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Bill, his diagram illustrates a boat not a piling to what would be his starboard stern if backing in. Same as my Ohio slip. A single slip gives one a lot more options. I know this because that is what I had in NC and FL.

 

[Ross]

I have a north facing slip and back in. During times of west wind the best I can do is get close and man handle the boat into the slip. Even leaving during a strong west wind is tricky because we don't have enough steerage to control the bow.

 

[Hermit Scott]

I have a tough time getting my boat turned around. Now every time I back out past 100 yards of docks. I have a Y shaped rope set up to gently crash into on the way back. I can leave and return with out needing anyone else. When we are leaving and people ask "what can I do?" I tell them to relax and have a beer.

 

[srhummer]

If you have a deckhand forward you can try an old navy trick. Put the anchor under foot (tending up and down but on bottom) it will move the pivot point forward from the prop (normal when backing) to the bow where the anchor is. 0nce your turned and ready to go forward hold your bow on the wind line and take in the anchor. You can move with it under foot if needed just go slow and do not let it out to far - keep it under foot. Hope this helps if nothing else works, I have used it in the navy with a single prop ship very effectively.

 

[drh1965]

Thanks everyone for the ideas, support, and understanding. Sorry that my boat pictures were not obvious about which end was which. Artist I am NOT!

Since you only have a few boats to your port side, why not use the port prop walk on your boat to you advantage and keep backing out. Makes life a lot easier.

This is usually what I end up doing... The diagram is not complete though. There are at least 12 boats to port. I just simplified the diagram a little. I've had one close call doing this, though. When it is very gusty, the bow tends to get blown around at slow speeds and I don't have great stearage in reverse....

I would think the wind would help you by blowing the bow to port as you back out.

To overcome prop walk, try this:

Once the boat gets moving you should be able to steer. Shift into reverse and give the throttle a good rev to start the boat moving. Shift back into N and try to gain steerage. Give the boat another burst in reverse and immediately shift back to N. Once you get steerage you should be able to shift into reverse and gently apply throttle.

Your procedure is what I try to do if I don't back all the way out of the marina.

In order to gain the room to engage forward and make the turn, I have to give quite a bit of reverse throttle on that last step before going forward. Unfortunately, that garbage dock astern comes up very fast so I have to overcome the momentum with a large forward thrust at the last minute. This procedure is a bit nerve-wracking. I haven't had an accident yet (4 years in this slip now) but I've got to say that I don't feel very seamanlike doing this.

(I'm not sure from your diagram and you don't say) why not just back clear of the slip and STOP. Don't try to turn. Let the breeze blow your bow down. When you're turned enough engage in forward and head out.

If the wind blows your bow to starboard just wait until you're turned enough until you can engage reverse and back down the fairway. I assume your boat backs under control from what's in your post.

I have the same arrangement except I'm the first boat next to the quay. Never had to warp around. I only need enough power to clear the slip. Let the breeze do your turning for you. You do have to be patient, but if you know what your boat will do ahead of time then it's only a question of waiting for it to happen. Like you, it pains me to see skippers apply massive amounts of throttle unnecessarily and then still get into trouble.

Naturally, if there's a current all bets may be off (I had that big-time at our previous marina.)

Interesting... I've not tried this. But, I'm definitely going to!

Ooops I 'misread' the drawing.
If bow in, the only possible way is to 'warp' the boat using the outer-most dock cleat and midship cleat .... the control line 'doubled' or 'looped' to the cleat so it can be quickly/easily released at the dock cleat from the boat, the control line run all the way back to the cockpit, etc. Id warp the boat around and let her lay up on the pilings, dock in front of the boat on the same finger dock until I could 'release'. A pivot turn will be of no benefit in this situation.

Can you further explain how the midship cleat is used? I can't visualize what you're saying.

I have the same situation at my slip. I use prop walk to swing the stern to port when I dock and then just motor out when leaving.
Can you dock stern in/bow out?
My technique:
to dock I motor slowly down the port side of the fairway. That would be the wrong side of the road if driving. Slowly is the key. Upon reaching the slip before mine I turn (speed of turn is wind dependent) to starboard and shift into neutral. Once the stern is centered on what will be the starboard bow piling I shift into reverse and let prop walk swing the stern into the slip. Then it is just grabbing the lines and securing the boat.
to leave drop the loose dock lines and pull the bow upwind.shift into forward and drop the bow line. Motor out just like a car leaving a parking place.

I haven't tried docking bow out. I've thought about it though. I think your idea of going beyond the slip and backing in along the finger might be pretty safe single-handed. I'll have to try this on a calm day! My only concern is that the boat to starboard (on the other side of my dock finger) sticks out beyond the finger quite a bit. His windvane might be quite an obstacle if my memory serves me correctly.

 

[gettinthere]

with a cross wind, I let the breeze blow the bow downwind, whichever way it wants. If the wrong way, I just loop around 180 in the fairway and get going. Sometimes that means doing a Y turn to get turned around in the fairway. Luckily I have a fairway wide enough to do this. In a tight fairway it might be difficult.

 

[Joe]

Using the midship cleat, rather than the stern, will help you keep the bow in line as you back out. The trickiest part is making sure the line stays under the dock cleat's horn until you are ready to pivot the boat. As you start backing up you'll have to pull in the slack.. then let it out as the midship cleat passes the dock cleat... then as the boat moves out into the fairway, secure the line and turn the stern to windard, letting the boat pivot on the line while the wind helps bow swing downwind... now quickly pull that dockline in and you're off. If there's a piling on the windward side of the dock.. it may be easier to use than the dock cleat.

If you're single handing it may be difficult to grab the dockline from the midship cleat without leaving the cockpit. My first thought would be to cleat somewhere near the wheel, like the winch, then run it up to the midship cleat. If that proves difficult... perhaps a "twing" type line. The dockline is threaded through a block tied to a line leading to the cockpit. The block will stay close to the cleat until you cast off the bitter end of the doubled dockline... to retrieve it, simply pull the block back to the cockpit so you can get control of the dockline and haul in the rest.

 

[Freedom77]

Have you ever considered docking stern first? Fair Winds...

 

[Stu Jackson]

Google "Captain Jack Klang.