New to forums, new to sailing HELLO!

[kevinnem]

Hello everyone. I am new to sailing and the forums.

I sailed a little bit when I was younger, and just last summer took a sailing cource, where we did a bunch of work on the little 420's it was pretty awesome. I was thinkign about what I want to do for my hobby, and I have a little 15 foot seaspray catermaran, but want a "big" boat as well, something I could do weekend trips on and stuff.

I really like the idea of teh water ballasted boats, as my 4 runner, can't tow that much (up to 3500lbs I think).

I read the sticky at the top about the boat models, however I am still a hair confused.

Am I correct in understanding taht all 26 series modles are waterballast? and non of the 25's are?

Also, is a swing keel , and a center board the same thing?

The 26 comes as a centerboard or dagerboard design - any comments on them and if one is better for me then the other?

Any other genral advise? - at the moment I am thinking I am looking to get a pretty cheap/old Macgregor 26 waterballast boat, and see how she treats me.

Kev.

-thanks for all the fish.

 

[Freedom77]

HI Kevinem: Welcome to the site from a 40+ year Venture owner. I prefer the iron swing keel but it is a matter of personal choice. Mac 25 weighs 2100 bare boat and trailer probably weighs 400 lb +/-. Regarding your question(s) go to the Boat Info tab on this site and you can pull up all the specs on all the different models. Also you can contact Blue Water Marine in Seattle who specialize in MacGregor stuff @ 800-688-8626. I see you are from Calgary. Contact the Sunshine Bay Yacht Club. Great bunch of folks. See if Colin Boon is still a member or even still allive. eh? Fair winds...

 

[CaptTripps]

Welcome to the forum Kevin! You will find nothing but good folks and good advice here. It's been about a year since I found this bunch and, boy, what a lot of help! Believe it or not, there are no "dump" questions. I know, I asked a lot of them and these guys took the time to coach me along. So, what ever boat you decide on, you'll get nothing but support. (Um, I have a swing keel but have never been in the water ballast...yet)>><CaptTripps

 

[Sumner]

.......Am I correct in understanding that all 26 series models are waterballast? and non of the 25's are?

Also, is a swing keel , and a center board the same thing?

The 26 comes as a centerboard or daggerboard design - any comments on them and if one is better for me then the other?.....
Kev. .

Welcome and yes all 26's are water ballast and the centerboards are not weighted. The first 26 the D has a dagger board in a trunk and then the S that followed has a swing keel (what Ruth and I have). The D and S are displacement hulls while the later X and then M can run large outboards and get up on plane.

I don't know if it is the right terminology or not, but I will use swing keel to mean it has weight (similar to a fixed keel) and a centerboard to mean it doesn't have added weight.

We like the swing centerboard, since we tend to run into things sailing new water. If you are sailing shallower inland lakes or say around Florida I'd think the S might be a better choice. If you are sailing deep lakes, or the same lake that you know or say the west coast then I think it probably wouldn't make much difference. The D is probably a hair faster than the S. Has a faster PFRF rating, I think an average of about 8-10 seconds per mile.

Good luck,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac-Venture Links

 

[Cruiser1]

......I don't know if it is the right terminology or not, but I will use swing keel to mean it has weight (similar to a fixed keel) and a centerboard to mean it doesn't have added weight. .......

I am not too sure of the 'correct' terminology either Kev, although I suspect the word 'centerboard' is often used to mean different things.

A daggerboard usually slids up and down vertically, or at a slight slant, within a case ie. a long thin board that may be anything from say 8" wide 1/2" thick and 2' long in a smaller sailing dingy up to say 1 1/2 feet wide, 2-3" thick and 5 feet long in a trailer sailer (there would obviously be various example outside of this range). Some daggerboards are pulled up by hand and other by pulley systems or winches. I am no expert in this area but by the size of some of the winch arrangements I have seen I suspect that at least some of the trailer sailer daggerboards have steel or lead weight incorporated into them.

A swing keel on the other hand is fixed with a pivot pin at one end (hence 'swings'). It is often within similar size ranges as above. In a small dingy it will often be made of solid material such as wood. In trailer sailers it is usually made of combination of wood, fibreglass, steel &/or lead and is usually weighted (in some cases it may simply be a steel plate). In the case of the 26S my understanding is that it is made of a combination of wood and fibreglass and is hollow - there are exit entry holes leading into the hollow core that allow water in and out. Hence when the keel is down it has water 'ballast' inside - when it is lifted up the water drains out. In the case of the 26S the keel can be lifted by hand by pulling a rope. When I measured the keel on my 26S it was 1907mm long x 260-265mm wide and about 45mm thick (we work in metric over here but the approximate conversion is 390mm to a foot). In probably the majority?? of cases trailer sailer swing keels are heavily balasted with lead or steel and hence need to be pulled up with the assistance of a winch - the 26S is of course one of the exceptions to this. From memory the 26S centerboard only weights about 15lbs - someone can probably correct me on the exact weight.

Confusion usually comes about because it is common for lots of sailors to refer to both daggerboards and swing keels as 'centerboards'.

On my 26S I sometimes refer to it as the 'centerboard' and other times as the 'keel'. If I was on a small sailing dingy that had a daggerboard I know I would sometimes call it a 'daggerboard', sometimes 'the board', sometimes the 'centreboard' and even sometimes the 'keel' - often determined by the day, the degree of panic and the clearness in my head at the time!

 

[kevinnem]

Thanks guys!

I appreceate all the time and effort you put in to answering my questions.

I understand (mostly) how teh swing keel works: the keel is on a pivot, and there is a rope, or wire winch that can "suck" it up in to its houseing (trunk). However, where does this rope/wire reside. is there a hole in teh boat to let the rope through the bottom? does it hang of the rear of the boat?
(feel free to link to a photo/schematic).

I ahve a similier issue with eh dagger board - if the unit is 2 m (6 feet +/-) high, how do you install it? The board is approximately in teh middle of teh boat - at an area I would say is usally where a table sits --- is there a hole in the floor that you push it though? How come water doesn't leak through this hole? (or is the air volume of the cabin not part of its floation)?

Am I makeing sence?

Kev.

PS- I hope to do a trip to australia soon!

 

[Freedom77]

The cast iron swing keel on a 25 is raised and lowered by a cable attached to a winch inside the cabin. The winch is above the water line so no water gets into the hull. The keel is locked in place by a SS locking bolt. Very secure, Very stable. The centerboard is raised and lowered through a trunk in the keel. Hope this helps. Fair Winds...

 

[Sumner]

Thanks guys!

I appreceate all the time and effort you put in to answering my questions.

I understand (mostly) how teh swing keel works: the keel is on a pivot, and there is a rope, or wire winch that can "suck" it up in to its houseing (trunk). However, where does this rope/wire reside. is there a hole in teh boat to let the rope through the bottom? does it hang of the rear of the boat?
(feel free to link to a photo/schematic).

I ahve a similier issue with eh dagger board - if the unit is 2 m (6 feet +/-) high, how do you install it? The board is approximately in teh middle of teh boat - at an area I would say is usally where a table sits --- is there a hole in the floor that you push it though? How come water doesn't leak through this hole? (or is the air volume of the cabin not part of its floation)?

Am I makeing sence?

Kev.

PS- I hope to do a trip to australia soon!

The picture above is of the non-ballast boats with the weighted keel.

On the S the cable comes up through the hull in a fiber-glassed tube which terminates under the sink. A hose (see picture above) is attached to the tube with hose clamps and the cable continues up to the above block. It runs through that block over to .......

...another block under the sink counter on the starboard side and exits out into the cabin.....

..... on the front of the sink counter shown above. I recently made it so that I can raise the center board from the location above or from....

........... out in the cockpit via.....

..... lines in the cabin. I can go from one to the other in about 30 seconds by removing the inside line from the outside one with a couple carabiner hooks. We will see how well it works. The way I have it when you pull from the cockpit you have a 2 to 1 advantage that helps pulling the board up. The mod details are here....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-19.html

On the D the dagger board trunk goes all the way to the cabin top on the outside of the boat and runs up right next to the sink. If you look at interior pictures of S and D's via my links or on Sailing Texas you can see a lot of this.

Good luck,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac-Venture Links

 

[Cruiser1]

.... (we work in metric over here but the approximate conversion is 390mm to a foot).....

Sorry about that error Kevinem and others. Having been in the agricultural game most of my life I constantly work between imperial & metric - many of my generation still frequemtly think and talk in imperial but measure in metric. I was thinking '39 inches per metre' amd transposed incorrectly as '390mm per foot' - up too late at night!

For reference if interested I keep lots of conversions in my Outlook organiser and will leave these few with you.

1 inch = 25.4 mm
1 foot = 304.8 mm (30.48cm)
1 metre = 3.2808 feet
1 square foot = 929.0304 sq cm = 0.0929 sq metres
1 sq metre = 10.764262 sq feet

Sumner has put up some good photos to explain the keel lifting arrangement.

Will be interested to hear how you think the new cockpit lifting arrangement works when next you go out Sumner.

 

[kevinnem]

sorry if I am being a pain. I guess I am just still a little curious on how you get the cables" though" the hull.

the diagram show aboves a pin, to hold the swing keel, as well as a cable, to raise and lower the same.
I guess what I am wondering is how do you insert the pin, (requireing manipulation of something underwater, on the bottom of the boat), and how does the cable get "through" the hull, with out causeing a leak (does th tube, go above teh water line?).

fundementally - I have found holes in hulls are bad, hwo do these fittings allow you to do stuff , with out leaking water everywhere?

Kev.

 

[ffaubert]

Have a look at Sum's diagram again.

There is a tube rising up that shows the keel cable coming through it. The top of the tube is above the water line by about 5 inches (12 cm to you and me). Water seeks it's own level so, unless you're bouncing the boat up and down, the water won't come into the boat from the tube.

HTH

 

[kevinnem]

Ahh, that makes perfect sense then.

THNAKS!