Sailing an H33 without a headsail

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Jun 3, 2004
298
'79 Hunter 33' HUN33190M79L Olympia
The last time I had my H33 out, the wind was heavy (25ish) and I tried to sail with just the mainsail, since I don't have a storm jib. The result is that I am now looking hard for a good inexpensive storm jib. The boat had almost no steerage in either direction. The only way I could tack was to start the motor. I could turn slowly, but it was very sluggish. Kind of scary. Didn't seem to change much when I adjusted the main sheet. I've done a fair amount of sailing on a variety of boats and never seen anything like it, so it was surreal. Does this boat not sail well without a headsail?
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Don't you have a furler on the jib? If you do, you can just let a partial jib out.

You can also depower/reef you main with or without your jib and may see better control.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,619
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
I was out last weekend sailing with just the main with high teen wind speeds and higher gusts. The 356 doesn't sail great in that configuration but it was comfortable and we could sail up to about 40 degrees apparent. Our speed varied between low threes to six knots. We were faster as we headed off. We didn't have much in the way of waves but I don't think we could have punched through very much.
We tried varing combinations of shortened sail. The 1/2 furled jib wasn't too bad but the furl was pencil thin. I don't usually take enough care to furl that tightly. But, when it breezed up we felt a bit overpowered. We tried the full jib (110) with a 2/3 furled main and that wasn't bad but the main was ugly - not flat (it is a furling main). It seemed to be mostly drag and not much push.
We didn't get to try the full jib alone but it would be my next choice. I tried this before and it was pretty good up to mid to high twenties.
 
Oct 3, 2006
1,029
Hunter 29.5 Toms River
Remember, when you have no jib up, the main gets trimmed a lot less than if you had a the jib up. Upwind the end of the boom should be out to the beam of the boat.
You've also got more weather helm, so as soon as the boat passes head to wind, full ease the main to finish the tack.
 
Jun 21, 2007
2,117
Hunter Cherubini 36_80-82 Sausalito / San Francisco Bay
It's A MastHead Rig ...

You might want to do your own research about my comments below, and also a good source of information is this website's Expert Forum on Sail Trim by Don Guillette.

The Hunter Cherubini 33 (and my 36 version) have masthead rigged jibs; that is the head of the jib is right near the top of the mast. The other main type of configuration is a fractional rig where the top of the jib is somewhat below the top of the mast, say 70/80% of the mast height. On these boats, the mast is located further forward than for a masthead rig and the mainsail is generally larger as a ratio to jib size than for masthead boats. The mainsail on a fractional rigged boat is the primary driver of the boat. If one is to sail with only one sail, my understanding (and from a little bit of experience) is that its the mainsail.

For a masthead rig, the mast is located further aft. The jib has a larger size ratio compared to the mainsail than for fractionally rigged boats. The foresail is the primary "engine" (Don Guillette's description) rather than the mainsail when going to wind.

When I am out with people who are a bit skittish of healing, or if I just want an easier time of it, its the jib that I use. I see the jib only configuration a lot with other masthead boats on SF Bay. If the wind is piping, I think that I'm not loosing much with the jib only. The boat does well with the wind anything forward of the beam... slower with the wind aft of the beam. For the few times I've hoisted only the mainsail, its as you describe -- really sluggish and non-responsive when trying to go to wind. Dismal performance actually. The mast is further aft than for a fractional boat, so weather helm is also an issue.

As Steve Dion queried, do you have your jib on a roller furling? Unless you have a genoa that can't be furled, sailing your boat with your jib only in 25kts should be OK. My boat has a 95% jib. For jib only, I have no problems with it fully unfurled at 20-25kts.

Once when the US weather service changed their initial gale wind warning instead to "5-15 kts", I went out. Before it was time to raise the sails, the wind began to pick up hard. Since I was already out and didn't want to give up on the day (the forecast was for relatively calm winds afterall), I decided to leave my mainsail tied to the boom and I just unfurled my genoa (the headsail I had on at the time) to about 50%. Then I reduced it even more as the wind continued to increase. The boat sailed more or less fine, but the wind kept increasing even more. It was time to get back to my berth; hopefully. Returning to the channel, a number of anchor-outs had broken free and one boat got swamped and was sinking. Actually getting the bow of my boat into the slip was more luck than skill. Getting off the boat, the wind pressure almost pulled the lines and the boat out my hands before I could tie off. Later, I checked the Angel Island wind guage. 59kts was the peak gust for the period I was out. The weather service really botched that day. I later read that quite a few boats got into trouble.
 
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Jun 21, 2007
2,117
Hunter Cherubini 36_80-82 Sausalito / San Francisco Bay
No, his jib is hanked on!
Oops, missed reading that post in the thread sequence.

Stephen, how what size is your head sail: large genoa, small genoa, standard jib? If standard (say 90-100%) sailing on that alone without the mainsail should do well for the wind range that you encountered poor performance only with the main flying.

One consideration I am not sure of is whether sailing on the jib alone might cause some dangerous out-of-balance stresses on the mast or standing rigging. I haven't seen any evidence when I sail on my jib alone, but of course I wouldn't find out until its too late. :eek: Anybody?
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,594
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
Jib alone stress on the mast

The pressure of the mainsail on the back of the mast along its length does stabilize the mast. So sailing on jib alone risks the mast more than on a reefed main and reefed jib.

But we are talking about an incremental risk on a very rare, catastrophic event. So we have sailed on the jib alone (we have a 110 up most of the time), and will in the future. Another thought is that the heel of the boat is a pretty good measure of the stress on your standing rigging. 15 degrees with an occasional 20 seems to be the ideal loading for our '77 h27. So I would be concerned about heeling 20 or more on the jib alone. That would mean high stress with low support for the mast.

Having said all of that, I am a sailor. So good seamanship means getting the sails just right for each condition of wind, waves, and course. I really like messing around with the sails. So heaving to, and reefing the main is as fun in my book as any other "point of sail." And I really like the way Lady Lillie balances with minimum weather helm on a reefed main.

On the original question, although she is a masthead rig, Lady Lillie points very well on the main alone This is our motorsailing configuration where the main can give us a real power assist getting through the waves heading close to the wind. With its boom, vang, traveler, outhaul, halyard, and cunningham, the main is by far the most controllable sail in our inventory.
 
Jun 3, 2004
298
'79 Hunter 33' HUN33190M79L Olympia
Hey, thanks for the replies. My headsail is about a 130. I am looking for about an 80, maybe, and a storm jib.

As David said, my mainsail is by far easier to raise and control. Everything is rigged back to the cockpit. It would be wonderful if I could sometimes use it by itself at times, especially singlehanding. I guess the masthead rigging makes that a poor option, generally. Maybe if I have a smaller headsail, it will be easier for me to handle than the one I have.
 

Ed H

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Sep 15, 2010
244
Hunter 33_77-83 Regent Point Marina, Virginia
Stephen- How fast were you sailing? I am not clear on why you could not tack.I had my Hunter 33 (1981) out Saturday in 15-20 knot winds. We only raised the main since we were tacking the entire time (I love how high into the wind she points) and had no problem. In fact it was really easy since we did not have to adjust the main every tack.
 
Jun 3, 2004
298
'79 Hunter 33' HUN33190M79L Olympia
Stephen- How fast were you sailing? I am not clear on why you could not tack.I had my Hunter 33 (1981) out Saturday in 15-20 knot winds. We only raised the main since we were tacking the entire time (I love how high into the wind she points) and had no problem. In fact it was really easy since we did not have to adjust the main every tack.
Hmm. This again leads me to believe I was doing something wrong and correctable. Did you have the main out at the beam of the boat as Brian M suggests above? I don't have an, um, windspeedometer. I estimated 30 at the time. Then I read Roger Long's recent article in the "ask all sailors" forum, so I reduced my estimate to 25. But we were going as fast as we could in that wind. There is some growth on the hull. Don't know how that would effect it. So other than getting the main out at the beam, what other adjustments should I try?
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,594
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
Waves?

At 25 to 30 knots, the waves can quickly become substantial. Tacking through them requires good boatspeed before the tack, and you may need to time the tack to avoid a big set of waves.
 

Ed H

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Sep 15, 2010
244
Hunter 33_77-83 Regent Point Marina, Virginia
Hmm. This again leads me to believe I was doing something wrong and correctable. Did you have the main out at the beam of the boat as Brian M suggests above? I don't have an, um, windspeedometer. I estimated 30 at the time. Then I read Roger Long's recent article in the "ask all sailors" forum, so I reduced my estimate to 25. But we were going as fast as we could in that wind. There is some growth on the hull. Don't know how that would effect it. So other than getting the main out at the beam, what other adjustments should I try?
Yes, my main was out that far in order to limit the weather helm.
 

malyea

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Dec 15, 2009
236
'87 Irwin 43 Sea Breeze
Stephen -

I agree with you, I think you were doing something wrong - likely too far off the wind with main sheeted too close effectively stalling the the airfoil (main sail) resulting in little boat speed for control or steerage -

My H30 sails quite well with main only in any wind up to 25 - 30 kts. I did experience your predicament once - I looked back, up and all around when my 'helms person' said the boat won't turn - and we were quite stalled as I described above. I eased the main sheet, centered the helm and she footed off nicely.

Take her out in a nice breeze and practice sailng with the main only - if in doubt, sheet it out - let the main sheet ease out till a slight luff and then fall off just enough to quiet the sail - bet you'll be pleased.

Good luck!
 
Jun 3, 2004
298
'79 Hunter 33' HUN33190M79L Olympia
Stephen -

I agree with you, I think you were doing something wrong - likely too far off the wind with main sheeted too close effectively stalling the the airfoil (main sail) resulting in little boat speed for control or steerage -

My H30 sails quite well with main only in any wind up to 25 - 30 kts. I did experience your predicament once - I looked back, up and all around when my 'helms person' said the boat won't turn - and we were quite stalled as I described above. I eased the main sheet, centered the helm and she footed off nicely.

Take her out in a nice breeze and practice sailng with the main only - if in doubt, sheet it out - let the main sheet ease out till a slight luff and then fall off just enough to quiet the sail - bet you'll be pleased.

Good luck!
I'll try that. Thanks!
 
Nov 21, 2010
6
83 hunter 27 33 maryland
Here is a thought, go to a used sail place and look for a hanked on 100 % jib for a boat like a catilina 22 or a hunter 25. no one says the sail need to a storm sail for a hunter 33, it just needs to be small. i would bet most 100 % sails have very little use as most people go to a genny.

my hunter 27 does very well with just a 100 % jib up in 30 knot winds
 
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