A Thought

[Buck420]

As I was thinking about Estelle's recent post "From NY to Florida along the coast", and in particular the segment from Beaufort, NC to Charleston, SC, it occurred to me that this offshore segment (roughly 200 nmi, ~ 36hr offshore run) might be the basis for a short little INFORMAL cruising "rally" for folks heading South on the ICW ....
It's always nice to meet new people and cruise with others. Many cruisers, heading South in the Fall, might like to do an overnight offshore sail, during a nice weather window, if they could sail in the company of a few other boats, especially if they're not used to a lot of offshore sailing.
Also, this particular segment of the ICW is tedious , with lots of opportunities to run aground. Yes, going around Frying Pan Shoals CAN be exciting, but I'm at a point where I prefer to leave the excitement to others, and would only go offshore in a nice weather window.
I realize that everyone has their own schedule and does "their own thing", but, if you're going to be going South down the ICW next month, plan to be near Beaufort/Morehead City by about the 3d week of October, and would like to cruise offshore with a few other boats, it might be fun.
No application fee, ... for that matter, no application, ... just an informal get together.....
' The Charleston 200 ' .

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate venue for such a post but ... any thoughts?

 

[Ross]

isn't 140 miles from noon to noon rather optimistic. I should think that for planning purposes 100 miles a day would be generous.

 

[Ctskip]

This is the perfect place for such a venue. You have a great thought here and with a little prodding it just might turn into a regular event. Who knows? I can and do appreciate your enthusiasm for a "get together", as it seems there's not enough of this sort of informal gathering going on at the moment. Any time someone suggests it, it tells me there is hope for a meeting of the minds, so to speak. Thank you for suggesting and encouraging such behavior. Hopefully something will come out of it. I wish you luck and I wish even more I could join you in your adventure. Hopefully someone will. You are so correct when you say it'll be a great learning tool for the timid.

Keep it up,
Ctskip

 

[Freedom77]

Under the right conditions you could possibly, but not likely, cover 140 miles in 24 hrs. I raced in the Newport-Ensenada race, approx 120 miles, and finished in just over 24 hours. But, we had a huge following sea, great wind and spinnaker up all the way doing 10-12 knots. wHAT A RUSH! Fair winds...

 

[Buck420]

isn't 140 miles from noon to noon rather optimistic. I should think that for planning purposes 100 miles a day would be generous.

~210 ni mi / 36 hrs = ~ 5.8 kts ..
Leaving at first light from Morehead City Inlet with a nice 15-20 kt N-NE wind, (not uncommon in October), most boats should be able to do ~ 6kts, running on a broad reach (with the relative wind 10-15).
If the wind is lighter, most can motor sail to keep up speed, (remember we're taking about a cruising rally... you CAN motor sail ).
If the wind is heavier, most would probably prefer not to go offshore and either wait for milder conditions or continue down the ICW.
Charleston harbor is a major shipping port. Even if it takes a boat slightly more than 36hrs to make the distance, coming into Charleston after dark is not that difficult, especially with others helping via VHF with local knowledge.

 

[Ross]

As I recall there is a long jetty on the north side of Charleston harbor entrance that extends quite some distance out to sea and is marked at the outer end by a navaid. people have died by not knowing this and trying to short cut into Charleston Harbor. It is not recommended for strangers to approach charleston Harbor at night for the first visit.

 

[Buck420]

As I recall there is a long jetty on the north side of Charleston harbor entrance that extends quite some distance out to sea and is marked at the outer end by a navaid. people have died by not knowing this and trying to short cut into Charleston Harbor. It is not recommended for strangers to approach charleston Harbor at night for the first visit.

You are correct. There are large rock jetties extending out into the Ocean which form the outer harbor entrance at Charleston.
A father and his 2? sons did, in fact, run into the North jetty, at night, in December(?) a few years ago. The weather (as I recall) was not good. Despite an apparent "may-day", they sadly died of exposure before they were found.
Despite this incedent, MANY pleasure craft do enter the harbor, routinely, at night, without problem. It is quite well buoyed, and with prudent navigation is not that difficult to enter.
Why the captain of the sailboat in the incident a few years ago went onto the rocks has apparently never been determined.

 

[sailaway78]

Just my .02

First and foremost this is a very good idea. And would be a lot of fun. But a couple of things to consider. Primarily I think that your plan of making this good of time, is optimistic. Especially when you are thinking of several boats. 100 mile days is more realistic. You also have to consider that the tidal currents along there are going to be stout. Bars can appear and disappear basically overnight. I never run a strange inlet at night, unless it is nearly a life/death situation. Been in enough trouble doing some in daylight hours. When doing an offshore passage like this, I always plan on 100 miles per 24 hr. run, and depart with and ETA of noon. This gives me several hours each way, to make my destination during daylight hours. Departing an inlet that I have recently entered is much easier in the dark, than coming in from offshore into a totally new entrance. You also need to keep in mind that many insurance policies prohibit heading south, below some arbitrary point, before Nov. 1. The fall migration seems to be a few weeks later post Katrina than it used to be.

 

[Ross]

According to NOAA chart 11521 the jetty extends to 79D 48M west so the approach should be well east of that.

 

[Buck420]

First and foremost this is a very good idea. And would be a lot of fun. But a couple of things to consider. Primarily I think that your plan of making this good of time, is optimistic. Especially when you are thinking of several boats. 100 mile days is more realistic. You also have to consider that the tidal currents along there are going to be stout. Bars can appear and disappear basically overnight. I never run a strange inlet at night, unless it is nearly a life/death situation. Been in enough trouble doing some in daylight hours. When doing an offshore passage like this, I always plan on 100 miles per 24 hr. run, and depart with and ETA of noon. This gives me several hours each way, to make my destination during daylight hours. Departing an inlet that I have recently entered is much easier in the dark, than coming in from offshore into a totally new entrance. You also need to keep in mind that many insurance policies prohibit heading south, below some arbitrary point, before Nov. 1. The fall migration seems to be a few weeks later post Katrina than it used to be.

Good points, Nice.
The insurance issue is a consideration; although some policies simply say that they will not pay for damage from a named storm if you take your boat South of Hatteras prior to Nov 1st, while others are more restrictive. Obviously, we would not be going offshore if there were a named storm anywhere even close to being an issue. But each captain must make their own decisions.
Also, I would not recommend anyone going offshore, on even this relatively short cruise, unless they have a well founded boat, carry enough fuel to motor sail at least most of the way, and are confident of themselves and their equipment.
And, yes, the current flowing into and out of Charleston harbor entrance CAN be 3+ kts. However, this is a major shipping port and shoaling is not an issue.
I can appreciate that the issue of potentially entering even Charleston harbor at night may be enough to dissuade some people from this "cruise"... and yes, averaging 6 kts in order to do the distance by dark of the 2d day may be too much for some.
But, with good weather and sea conditions, a good crew, a GOOD chartplotter (and autopilot), plenty of fuel, and "fast" boat, it is quite doable.
No, this isn't a dilly-dally cruise; you'll need to "move it"... especially if you want me to buy you a beer at the Charleston City Marina before happy hour ends ...

 

[sailaway78]

More good points

Not wanting to argue, but point out a couple of things. You list several things that need to be good to make this happen. Mr. Murphy loves stowing away on boats. And sailing a 42, you will be very likely to be one of the biggest and fastest boat in the group. Others in the 35 and 36 foot range will be down in boat speed, compared to you. Last summer, we made a group trip east, going offshore from Gulfport to Pensacola. In the group were a new Hunter 45, a Hunter 36, my S37 and a Catalina 30. The 45 left Gulfport about two hours after the rest, and passed us before Mobile bay entrance. We were on a close reach, in nearly perfect conditions. Myself and the H36 were going a little slow, to stay with the 30 footer, but it wouldn't have made much difference. The 45 was just a lot faster than the smaller boats. Overall, the basic premise of buddy boating is to stay reasonably close together, so as to be able to assist another boat if needed. There will be smaller boats, and perhaps less experienced skippers in your group. I still think you have a nice idea, and the only thing I would change is to leave earlier, perhaps midnight, and allow you more daylight hours to make you entrance.

 

[Gary_H]

Yes you can only travel as fast as the slowest boat in your fleet. perhaps allow for more time and alter the departure time to make the Charleston channel during daylight. Might be better to leave through a familiar channel at night so you can arrive at an unfamiliar one during the day.

 

[Buck420]

Not wanting to argue, but point out a couple of things. You list several things that need to be good to make this happen. Mr. Murphy loves stowing away on boats. And sailing a 42, you will be very likely to be one of the biggest and fastest boat in the group. Others in the 35 and 36 foot range will be down in boat speed, compared to you. Last summer, we made a group trip east, going offshore from Gulfport to Pensacola. In the group were a new Hunter 45, a Hunter 36, my S37 and a Catalina 30. The 45 left Gulfport about two hours after the rest, and passed us before Mobile bay entrance. We were on a close reach, in nearly perfect conditions. Myself and the H36 were going a little slow, to stay with the 30 footer, but it wouldn't have made much difference. The 45 was just a lot faster than the smaller boats. Overall, the basic premise of buddy boating is to stay reasonably close together, so as to be able to assist another boat if needed. There will be smaller boats, and perhaps less experienced skippers in your group. I still think you have a nice idea, and the only thing I would change is to leave earlier, perhaps midnight, and allow you more daylight hours to make you entrance.

I understand your concerns completely ... I, too, have been left behind by faster boats.
You suggestion to leave at midnight (or so) is an excellent one, and indeed, I (we), ... (I was sailing w/ a H456 who left me behind offshore, also), ... did exactly that in the Fall of '06, (leaving Morehead City). After waiting for SW winds to clock to the NW with the passage of a cold front, we left at ~ 23:30 to take as much advantage of the Northerly wind as possible as it was forecast to die off within a day or 2, with the approach of yet another front.
Leaving any earlier, ... well, that's 2 nights offshore and you might as well stay outside and come in at a N Fla inlet.

 

[Steve Dion]

I would say that Buck is mildly optimistic, but 125 mi. per day would not be out of line for a 42 ft Hunter. These are not slow boats and he probably has some experience.

 

[sailaway78]

my point about boat speed

My entire point concerning boat speed was that you cannot plan on who else will be in the group. Not knowing the boats, and even more important the skippers and crew. The Hunters are pretty fast from what I have seen. 125 mile days are well within reason, assuming of course the weather don't get way out of whack. And planning on a fast passage, depending on weather that far ahead, just doesn't seem to be a good decision. Of course, for me, sailing never gets in a hurry.

 

[Ctskip]

I ride with a motorcycle club and when we travel together, we travel as fast as the slowest bike will do comfortably. There are new Harleys that cruise at 85 while my panhead is comfortable at 65 and some others don't go that fast.
Just as my Allmand 31 is not the slowest pig in the group, we still must travel by adjusting our speed to the slowest boat if we choose to sail "together" in a group. It's not that hard and it makes for more bigger fun. I've been known to jump ship at times, while traveling in a group. Unfortunately, those days are long gone.
To talk about how long it will take to go from point A to point B is a moot subject because you don't know the speed of the slowest boat nor the winds or currents. That will take a day or two to finger out.
For me, it's more the ride, than the destination

Keep it up,
Ctskip

 

[Buck420]

Gentleman, I appreciate all of the input, and respect all of your comments.
You bring up points that I had not considered.
I agree that boats smaller than mid 30's could not be reasonable expected to average 5.5-6kts for 36 hrs, and as such, for them, the "cruise" as outlined, would probably be impractical.

 

[Ross]

Buck, in a fun game of softball everybody that wants to play is invited and even if they are without skill it isn't fair to exclude them.

 

[Buck420]

Buck, in a fun game of softball everybody that wants to play is invited and even if they are without skill it isn't fair to exclude them.

Ross,
I do apologize if I offended Beatspaddlin in any way with my comment about "boats smaller than mid 30's" .
It would be an honored if you and Beatspaddlin were to participate in the inaugural Charleston 200.
Your participation will lend both credibility and a "can do" spirit to the event that will make it the envy of all cruising rallies.

 

[Ross]

Ross,
I do apologize if I offended Beatspaddlin in any way with my comment about "boats smaller than mid 30's" .
It would be an honored if you and Beatspaddlin were to participate in the inaugural Charleston 200.
Your participation will lend both credibility and a "can do" spirit to the event that will make it the envy of all cruising rallies.

I am sure there was no offence intended and I assure you there was none taken. Unfortunately I am a few hundred miles too far north to join you, otherwise I would be most pleased.