Manners, Manners, Where have they gone??

Feb 6, 1998
11,689
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
So for the last few months I have been conducting my own mini-manners study. Every morning I stop at a very busy local coffee shop to get my drug. I then hit the same chain a few more times a day, often picking up coffee for clients. Almost every visit I wind up holding the door for people. Most often I am at the door about 3-35 feet ahead of the person or persons I am holding it for, beyond about 35 feet is my limit.

I was taught at a very young age by my parents, and very often my very astutely polite grandmother who actually attended a finishing school, that when someone holds a door for you and you walk through it into a facility where there is a line that you ALWAYS step to the side and offer the place. This, I was taught was the polite way to reciprocate the polite gesture of the door holder who would have had the spot in line if they had not been polite in the first place.

Study Design:
Hold door for people when I was very clearly at the coffee shop door WELL before them and then see if they also took the spot in line or were respectful enough to grant me the spot in the line after holding the door for them. Secondary measure = monitor rate of "Thank you".

Inclusion Criteria:
Anyone within 20-35 feet of the front door to the coffee shop and clearly heading for it. This included males & females of all ages as well as groups.

Exclusion Criteria:
I ruled out anyone who was within 10 feet of the door, or, there about the same time I was. Under 10 feet there could be confusion as to who was at the coffee shop first for the purposes of observational line placement. Beyond ten feet I feel it is quite clear who would have been in line first had I not waited, been polite, and held the door.


Data: (age was guesstimated)

Males Over 30:
Doors Held = 13 (some groups of two males)
Line Spots Taken = 1
Thank You's = 12

Males Under 30:
Doors Held = 8 (some groups of two males)
Line Spots Taken = 5
Thank You's = 4

Females Over 30:
Doors Held = 21 (women seem to travel in pairs)
Line Spots Taken = 17
Thank You's = 20

Females Under 30:
Doors Held = 14 (women still seem to travel in pairs)
Line Spots Taken = 13
Thank You's = 4

Co-Ed (Couples) Over 30: (Couple factor guesstimated)
Doors Held = 7
Line Spots Taken = 1
Thank You's = 7

Co-Ed (Couples) Under 30:
Doors Held = 9
Line Spots Taken = 6
Thank You's = 4


Results:

Females:
I found that females, both over and under 30, felt entitled to the spot in the line. Very occasionally I would catch glimpses of guilt suggesting they knew proper manners and door holding protocol. Even groups of three or more, on-occasion, had no problem taking the spot ahead of me adding as much as 4-5 minutes to my wait time. High rate of thank you's in the over 30 population but quite low in under 30.

Males:

Over 30: I found the males to be considerably more likely to walk thought the door then step aside and give me the place in line with a "no you were here first". High rate of thank you's. men over 30 seem to have been taught and raised more often on polite door holding protocol.

Under 30: I found males under 30 not much different than females in the data. I also did not note any sort of guilt looks like I did in the female population. Low rate of thank you's.

Co-Ed: Mixed bag, lots of taken lines under 30 and only 1 over 30. Very few thank you's under 30 and 100% over 30?




So what do you guys make of the state of manners in the US? Perhaps you also feel that if I hold the door for you then you are also entitled to the next spot in line without so much as a reciprocal polite response of stepping to the side and at least offering it? If so, I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

Please remember that this line is usually 7-12 minutes in the mornings so it's not as if they are depriving you of 20-30 seconds after you held the door for them. With a 20-30 second line it is more easy to accept when manners get thrown out the window. Holding the door for someone 35 feet away is awkward and you seem to be standing there waiting for a while. Some folks sped up others seemingly go slower. Did not track this but should have.

One interesting observation, I did not measure this, was that ALL "entitled" line takers seemed to have considerably more complicated orders eg: Tall, three shot, decaf, extra wet cappuccino, cinnamon, two raw sugars, soy milk but with some skim milk foam.. (not kidding on that one)


I am about done holding doors in a country that has lost its politeness and understanding of basic manners. Obviously I can't beat em', so might as well join em'..

Interested to hear your thoughts...:)
 
May 6, 2010
472
1984 Oday 39 79 Milwaukee
I concur with your assessment, although I never analyzed it quite so thoroughly!

We always taught our kids that when crossing the street or parking lot in front of a car that has paused for you to quicken your pace, and acknowledge the courtesy extended you, but it seems in extending the courtesy to others often times they amble along at a snail's pace or in some cases even walk more slowly!
 
Jan 10, 2007
62
Hunter 216 Pardise Found
I get bugged about stopping for people in a parking lot or crossing the street illegally...not only do they amble but they cross at an angle. The shortest time across is, of course, at a 90 degree angle. But the normal angle is a minumum of 45 degrees which takes the 1.4 times as long to cross. Many of them thing nothing of a 30 degree angle which takes them twice as long to cross. Then there are the ones at a 0 degree angle. Geeze! I often want to bump them a little with my car...I mean, like, I'm a much bigger car than they are a person! Beep, beep...you fat lazy slob!
 

Dan H

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Oct 9, 2005
143
Catalina C25 SW Michigan
I think I am DONE holding doors in such a rude country
as is everyone else.
we reap what we sow

Manners got thrown away with the Bible.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,689
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I concur with your assessment, although I never analyzed it quite so thoroughly!
Just kept a piece of paper in the visor with some chicken scratch hatch marks... Was on a teleconference in the parking lot , and bored to death, while I dreamed it up..;);)

We always taught our kids that when crossing the street or parking lot in front of a car that has paused for you to quicken your pace, and acknowledge the courtesy extended you, but it seems in extending the courtesy to others often times they amble along at a snail's pace or in some cases even walk more slowly!
Please don't get me going on the amblers or folks who actually purposely slow down! HUGE pet peeve!!!
 
Jan 24, 2008
293
Alerion Express 28 Oneida Lake, NY
Please remember that this line is usually 7-12 minutes in the mornings so it's not as if they are depriving you of 20-30 seconds after you held the door for them.

One interesting observation, I did not measure this, was that ALL "entitled" line cutters seemed to have considerably more complicated orders eg: Tall, three shot, decaf, extra wet cappuccino, cinnamon, two raw sugars, soy milk but with some skim milk foam.. (not kidding on that one)

I think I am DONE holding doors in such a rude country. Obviously I can't beat em', so might as well join em'..

Interested to hear your thoughts...:)
Sorry, I don't know how to split the quotes!

The length of the line should have nothing to do with it. The fact is you offered your courtesy before you saw the line!

Those with complicated orders should have felt even more compelled to give you your rightful spot in the line.

Please don't stop holding doors; please help preserve whatever modicum of courtesy there is left in this world!!!

Paul
PS The next time you're this bored, try a survey of men touching the brim of, or actually tipping their hats, to female passersby.

PPS One of my female co-workers, slightly older than I, used to get upset if I held the door for her as we entered the building from the parking lot. I told her she'd have to speak to my Father about that, as he was responsible for the training. She never brought it up again.
 
May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
I concur

Good manners are becoming a thing of the past. Younger generations are too much into the "me" first and foremost ideology.
 
Jul 28, 2010
914
Boston Whaler Montauk New Orleans
Maine Sail, if I didn't know better, I'd swear you were form the South!

Along those lines, do y'all make your kids say "m'am" and "sir" when answering you or other adults? Not as strict as the military, but like "yes, m'am" and "no sir".
 
Jun 7, 2004
263
- - Milwaukee
Holding the door for someone to walk through ahead of you implies you're offering that person the opportunity to go first to the line, too. Happens all the time at the gym where I go: I hold the door, lady walks through, goes to the counter first to get locker, etc. It's all part of the package. You're a gracious guy, that's all.
 

Bilbo

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Aug 29, 2005
1,265
Catalina 22 Ohio
So what do you guys make of the state of manners in the US? Perhaps you also feel that if I hold the door for you then you are also entitled to the next spot in line? If so, I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
I think that the state of manners in the US has declined in the past 40 years from what I've seen. People are taught more to take and not work together.
The state of manners may be very dependent upon location. Some busy people in congested metropolitan areas at rush hour may appear more rude.

also, If you open the door for someone going into a restaurant, then it is up to the individual that you allowed to go first to decide who's also first in line. Or since you in essence stepped back, you probably shouldn't be concerned with who goes first. Esp, If the person walking in may not even think that you are in line. I'd suggest that you look at it this way, your act of kindness was given for free...Whether or not it was apparently appreciated and immediately reciprocated should not be a contingency factor.
One interesting observation, I did not measure this, was that ALL "entitled" line cutters seemed to have considerably more complicated orders eg: Tall, three shot, decaf, extra wet cappuccino, cinnamon, two raw sugars, soy milk but with some skim milk foam.. (not kidding on that one)
I think I am DONE holding doors in such a rude country. Obviously I can't beat em', so might as well join em'..
I would say that holding the door was the right thing to do. Analyzing their response in such a detailed way was probably not. About two decades ago, I held the door for some woman and she sad to me in a rude way that she can open her own doors. I still hold doors for all sorts of people...within reason. Have you seen the movie, "Pay it Forward?" Imagine that it may be possible that the person that didn't thank you and ordered the complicated drink between txtng on their cell.....thought this over later and then held the door for some other stranger in some other place and time.
It's a tough world for some people out there.
Thanks for helping a few out in deed and example.
 
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zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
i appreciate manners--is a rare occurrence. good manners is even rarer, and even more appreciated.
MOST of the time i try to treat folks in the manner in which i want to be treated.
 

Bilbo

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Aug 29, 2005
1,265
Catalina 22 Ohio
i appreciate manners--is a rare occurrence. good manners is even rarer, and even more appreciated.
MOST of the time i try to treat folks in the manner in which i want to be treated.
Well said Z ;)
 
Feb 6, 2009
257
Hunter 40 Camano Island
Maine......

Thanks for the summary of research.

Now I know specifically who I am willing to hold the door open for.

thanks
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
and i always acknowledge when a man has opened the door for me with at minimum, a thankyou and a smile