New Cat 22 owner, question about heavy wind

[davemchine]

I have taken my ASA 101 and 102 classes and got luck in finding an 88 catalina 22 with a wing keel. I am incredibly pleased with the boat. My goal is to sail with the family which includes my wife and two children (10 and 6).

I've had the boat out twice on our local lake in winds ranging from 6-9mph which I was able to handle just fine. The waves started to kick up at the upper range making for a little bit bouncy ride. My question is, when should I consider reefing on this boat? I know the stock answer, when you feel you need to, but I'd like to know what experience others have had.

Also, I've seen several messages saying to never tie the main halyard off to a deck cleat in heavy wind. My boat only has a clam cleat (I hope I have the right term) and I'm not sure if that would hold.

Other than that things are going really well. The boat is in great shape, the last owner was absolutely wonderful on maintenance. I wouldn't mind adding a depth guage and maybe one of those dials that shows the angle of heal but those aren't big deals.

Thanks for any info.

Dave

 

[Stu Jackson]

Replace the clam cleat (plastic fixed jaws) with a cam cleat, opening jaws easy pull up to release. Reason: the clam cleat won't hold, the cam cleat will. You're right, don't ever use a regular cleat on a mainsheet.

Reefing: depends on how big a jib you have, but generally 15 knots is about the time to make sure you do so.

 

[OldCat]

Mainsheet, or Halyard?

Replace the clam cleat (plastic fixed jaws) with a cam cleat, opening jaws easy pull up to release. Reason: the clam cleat won't hold, the cam cleat will. You're right, don't ever use a regular cleat on a mainsheet.

Mainsheet? Did I miss something? It looked to me like the OP was talking about the main halyard. Either way a clam cleat is not a great option. I use the factory stock cleat, it is a horn cleat with a jammer v groove - I have heard it called a European jam cleat. The halyard is jammed in the v, then a cleat hitch around the cleats horns. (I am not sure of my terminology here?)

Also, I have had cam cleats jam under load - main halyard when caught in a thunderstorm microburst on a J22. Still, it beats a clam by a lot. The Euro jam cleat that is factory stock on my C22 should be easy to undo, but when I lead lines aft, it will be with a line clutch.

OC
tich tor ang tesmur

 

[Stu Jackson]

Woops!

You're right, I goofed. Main HALYARD, not mainsheet. Pretty much the same answer, although I would never use one of those jam cleats, because they're worse to get loose than what you just described. They, like 5200, do not belong on a boat (except for the hull to deck joint for the 5200).

 

[OldCat]

Reefing

For a newby, I'd consider reefing as soon as you start seeing more than a few whitecaps.

Practice sailing your boat with the headsail only - a C22 with its masthead rig will sail upwind and tack on only the headsail. In heavy wind, you are less likely to broach on only the headsail than with the main up, and there is no risk of accidental jibe going downwind. Roller furling is a big help here, since you can easily reduce sail area. (note, boats with fractional jibs are much harder to sail upwind on only the jib - boats like a J22)

Remember that you can heave too under power, 30-45 deg off the wind. A reliable motor helps a lot - don't be ashamed to use it. But, be ready to get a headsail up, or an anchor down, if the motor fails.

Carry a knife, while it would stink to have to cut the main halyard, it could 'in extremis', as a somewhat last resort, beat having the mainsail up - you could always motor, or use the headsail to get home. The knife is also needed if anyone wraps a line under tension around an arm or leg.

And, of course, do you best to watch weather forecasts, work up to more wind SLOWLY.

The real fun begins when you can go out in conditions that let you exceed hull speed...

OC
tich tor ang tesmur

 

[OldCat]

Jam Cleats

I would never use one of those jam cleats, because they're worse to get loose than what you just described.

I have not had trouble with the jam cleat, though I admit, it is not an ideal solution, I can see why you do not like them. For me, line clutches are going in when the boat comes out of the water for the winter.

Also, I think that the jaming horn cleat works just fine for my outhaul, so maybe not entirely out of place on a boat. Easy to undo there, it is another Catalina stock part.

So far, I guess that I am happier than you are with the jam cleat, though I really want clutches for critical lines. And, I have had a cam cleat jam when the main was winched up and the wind spiked. I sail where weather predictions are useless. Sails have to be able to come down NOW.

Catalina wants me to use 5200 for the mast step halyard plate, so I really hope that 4200 will be OK for it, esp since I bought a big tube of the stuff.

OC
tich tor ang tesmur

 

[paphman]

Over the last few years we have brought all of the lines back to the cockpit. We have them going through rope clutches. In my mind, they are the best thing you can use to hold a line secure. They open under load, can have line pulled through them when closed, and as long as there are no kinks in your lines they will not jam. We had a second reef point put in our main five years ago, and use it a few times ayear. We also have a small 50% jib that we use when the wind is strong or gusting. You will find that gusting winds will be very challenging. If you have to much sail up the boat will want to heel alot quicker that it will want to move forward. You will find yourself letting out the main, and bring it in again alot. With a reef or two and a smaller head sail it will reduce this. After you have sailed her awhile you will find that the C-22 can take alot more than you may think now. We sail on Lake Ontario and we find that the waves are more of a problem that the wind. We have also added about 75lbs of weight in the small forward compartment in the v berth. We find that this makes a huge differance in keeping the bow from bouncing around in the waves. I think your wife will find this to be more enjoyable as well. Wind speeds from about 8 to 13kts apparent are a real joy to sail in. Enjoy your new boat, and have a ball doing the greatest sport on earth.

Dale

 

[davemchine]

sailing today

We took the boat out today with a forcast of 7mph winds. That forcast was later revised to 11mph. It was about the limit of my comfort at this point but I suspect I could have done more with the sails. I did not reduce the main or the jib and that might have made things more enjoyable.

I do have a question about turning up. We were sailing downwind and decided to head back into the wind. I started to turn the boat to a broad with the intention of turning up close. But the boat REALLY healed over. No worries, I just want back to my downwind direction. We ended up letting the jib fly and then making the turn. I suspect this was not the ideal way to handle the situation and I'd like to know what I could have done differently.

Also, we had some unexpected rain. Lots of rain. Does anyone have any recommendations for rain gear?

Dave

 

[paphman]

Dave,

What happened to you was the apparent wind. A boat does not sail to the true wind, but to the apparent wind. Let say the true wind is 10 kts. This is the wind speed that you will feel if you are standing on the dock. Now lets get in the boat. If you are sailing with the wind as you were the other day, you will feel light wind. If you look at you speed on the gps it may say 3 to 4 kts. This means that you are "feeling" 6 kts. of wind (apparent wind). Remember that the wnd is blowing 10 kts. Now you come about and sail to a reach or beat. Your gps may say you are going 5 kts. Add this to the true wind speed of 10 kts, and you will be feeling 14 to 15 kts of wind on you face(apparent wind). This apparent wind speed is what drives the boat, not the true wind speed. This is what happened to you when you came about. We have a wind speed indicator on board and I find that it helps. I will look up the web site for you and you can take a look at it. Also take a look at Don Guillette web fourm. It is the sail trim fourm. You will find some great finformation on it. Sailing has a learning curve and we are all on it. You never get to the end. Every time you go out you will learn something else about your boat and yourself. This is what makes this a great sport. If someone tells you they know all there is to know about sailing run as fast as you can. This and other forums are a great place to get ideas. Some you will like and others you may not. Your situation also should let you know it is time to learn how to reef your main. Do this in good weather when a reef is not needed. When the wind is blowing and the waves are up, is not the time to learn. Take your time and ask questions. Have fun.

Dale

 

[paphman]

Dave,

The wind speed instrument is called Windtronic 2. Just type that in and go the the first site. There are many places that sell it, so look around. We put a 1/4 screw up through the sliding hatch cover, and nount it there. You can see it from the helm and just about anywhere you sit. It is not a handheld unit the you have to point into the wind. It has three spinning cups that pick up the wind, so it works from anywhere you mount it. It is also make in Germany, NOT China. That should tell you everything you need to know. Give it a look, you may find it is something you like. We have had ours for five years and love it. Also remember that the wind speed at the mast head, will be stronger than at deck level.

Dale

 

[Smiley]

If you want hand-held unit look for a Skymate Windmeter. I have one from my kite flying days ... it measures up to 55mph and also reads temperatures. I've been very happy with it. I paid $75 about 10 years ago, and it's now $89 from Into the Wind kite store in Boulder, CO.