centerboard pin repair

[Granger]

I lifted my o'day 23 today to inspect the centerboard and found that it had a lot of side play. Much more than I remember from my last inspection some three years ago. I assume this means pin replacement. Will those who have done this please answer a few questions.
1. How do I locate and get to the pin?
2. I remember seeing a note that this pin was plastic? Is that so and where can I get a replacement? Has anyone successfully used a substitute?
3. Any other words of wisdom.

 

[Joe11688]

I lifted my o'day 23 today to inspect the centerboard and found that it had a lot of side play. Much more than I remember from my last inspection some three years ago. I assume this means pin replacement. Will those who have done this please answer a few questions.
1. How do I locate and get to the pin?
2. I remember seeing a note that this pin was plastic? Is that so and where can I get a replacement? Has anyone successfully used a substitute?
3. Any other words of wisdom.

The pin is made of fiber and Rudy carries these and anything else that you may need. I wouldn't use a substitute.
http://www.drmarine.com/ There are two stainless steel plates with four Phillips head bolts and two s.s. wood screws that need to be removed to get at the wedges that hold the pivot pin. I used an impact driver to remove two of the bolts that were stubborn, but I honestly believe that a good cordless impact drill with a large Phillips bit will work. The Fiberglass wedges are held in place by the two wood screws, plus the polysulfide caulking. A fishing fillet knife and a 1" putty knife will be handy in removing the wedges. Once the rabbet grooves are cleaned out, the board and pin will slide right out. I used two long ropes with Bowlines on one end. I ran them over the cabin and under the keel, to support the board and allow me to let it down easy. If the bolts aren't stubborn, it's not really a hard job. While you have the board out, you may as well give it, and the keel slot a couple of coats of ablative bottom paint. This is what I did when I took mine out.
Joe

 

[Granger]

Thanks for the prompt response Trinkka. The thumnails you sent show what appears to be the top of the keel from inside the bilge. My bilge is fiberglassed on the bottom. Does access to the pin require that this layer of fiberglass be removed?

 

[Joe11688]

Thanks for the prompt response Trinkka. The thumnails you sent show what appears to be the top of the keel from inside the bilge. My bilge is fiberglassed on the bottom. Does access to the pin require that this layer of fiberglass be removed?

On the contrary. The thumbnails show the bottom of the keel looking up into the keel slot. You need to be able to expose the bottom of the keel in order to get at it. I had to shore up in front of and in back of the keel with wood blocks in order to get at my centerboard.
Joe

 

[fredebers]

I have an O'Day 222 and the centerboard snapped cleanly off, leaving me with the upper 1/3 fastened underwater and the lower 2/3 and pendant in my garage. I see D+R has a replacement. I can't find any other source for cost comparison. Can I pin and/or glue the centerboard back together, or do I need to find a replacement? Are the components the same as you described for the O'day 21? Is the replacement procedure the same?
Thanks
Fred in Texas

 

[Joe11688]

I lifted my o'day 23 today to inspect the centerboard and found that it had a lot of side play. Much more than I remember from my last inspection some three years ago. I assume this means pin replacement. Will those who have done this please answer a few questions.
1. How do I locate and get to the pin?
2. I remember seeing a note that this pin was plastic? Is that so and where can I get a replacement? Has anyone successfully used a substitute?
3. Any other words of wisdom.

Rudy, at D&R Marine has these fiber pins in stock.
http://www.drmarine.com/ I'm assuming that the centerboard mechanism on the O'Day 23 is similar to the OD 222, 25, and 26. There are two plates under the keel that hold the two fiberglass wedges in place that support the fiber pivot pin for the centerboard. These need to be removed in order to get the centerboard out of the keel slot. Check out the archives on this site for pictures and directions that I have posted. The bolts that hold the plates can be stubborn. I had two that gave me a problem and I used an impact driver, but I think that a cordless impact drill with a Phillips driver can do this job real easy. The wedges are held in place by two wood screws, and caulking. A fishing fillet knife to cut through the caulking, plus a 1" putty knife to clean out the wedge slot will enable the pin and board to drop down and out of the keel slot. It's really not such a hard job if you plan it out.
Joe

 

[RacerX]

Philips bolt size???

The pin is made of fiber and Rudy carries these and anything else that you may need. I wouldn't use a substitute.
http://www.drmarine.com/ There are two stainless steel plates with four Phillips head bolts and two s.s. wood screws that need to be removed to get at the wedges that hold the pivot pin.
Joe

Joe,

Excellent post! So happens I was touching up my bottom paint and scraping inside the centerboard trunk with my 23 on the trailer. Happened to notice the starboard wedge pin for the centerboard resting on the trailer. Seems it took the opportunity to slide out. It appears as though there was not a plate affixed to hold it in, just the caulking.... That is, the space for the plate was well painted over, so looks as though the plate either never was, or hasnt been there for some time. Accordingly, I've got to go about scraping that old caulk out of there, get a new plate from Rudy, and refit the wedge and plate. Questions are:

-which caulk did you use (4200?)
-how did you get the old out satisfactorily (just scraping, or a solvent too...)
-and since I dont have the plate hardware, what are the proper bolts for screwing the plate to the keel?

It doesn't appear that Rudy sells the screws with the plate, but will try to give him a ring to see if he has the right thread and length specs as well.

I guess I should feel somewhat lucky that I noticed that before launching, and losing at the very least the wedge--if not the centerboard assembly altogether.

Thanks in advance!

Adam

 

[mountain_hiker]

Rudy, at D&R Marine has these fiber pins in stock.
http://www.drmarine.com/ I'm assuming that the centerboard mechanism on the O'Day 23 is similar to the OD 222, 25, and 26. There are two plates under the keel that hold the two fiberglass wedges in place that support the fiber pivot pin for the centerboard. These need to be removed in order to get the centerboard out of the keel slot. Check out the archives on this site for pictures and directions that I have posted. The bolts that hold the plates can be stubborn. I had two that gave me a problem and I used an impact driver, but I think that a cordless impact drill with a Phillips driver can do this job real easy. The wedges are held in place by two wood screws, and caulking. A fishing fillet knife to cut through the caulking, plus a 1" putty knife to clean out the wedge slot will enable the pin and board to drop down and out of the keel slot. It's really not such a hard job if you plan it out.
Joe

I've talked to Rudy and he doesn't have any more wedges. It seems the mold has been lost and he can't make any more. Does anyone have centerboard wedges they might be willing to sell for an Oday Daysailer II 17'? Thanks for any help......Bob.

 

[Shoaldrafter]

Bob,

Take the one out for port side and use as template?

Ed K
26

 

[Joe11688]

Joe,

Excellent post! So happens I was touching up my bottom paint and scraping inside the centerboard trunk with my 23 on the trailer. Happened to notice the starboard wedge pin for the centerboard resting on the trailer. Seems it took the opportunity to slide out. It appears as though there was not a plate affixed to hold it in, just the caulking.... That is, the space for the plate was well painted over, so looks as though the plate either never was, or hasnt been there for some time. Accordingly, I've got to go about scraping that old caulk out of there, get a new plate from Rudy, and refit the wedge and plate. Questions are:

-which caulk did you use (4200?)
-how did you get the old out satisfactorily (just scraping, or a solvent too...)
-and since I dont have the plate hardware, what are the proper bolts for screwing the plate to the keel?

It doesn't appear that Rudy sells the screws with the plate, but will try to give him a ring to see if he has the right thread and length specs as well.

I guess I should feel somewhat lucky that I noticed that before launching, and losing at the very least the wedge--if not the centerboard assembly altogether.

Thanks in advance!

Adam

Adam,
You're probably going to have to remove your other plate and have a new one made using it as a pattern. After you remove all the caulking from the side where the other plate was supposed to be, you should check and see if the two bolts from your existing plate will screw into the holes on that side. I hope for your sake that the PO didn't break off the other bolts. If he did, you're going to have to try and remove them somehow.
When I removed the caulking from the rabbet grooves in the keel slot, I only used a 1" putty knife. I'm not sure but I think that I used 3-M 4200 Adhesive Sealant Caulking to adhere the wedges on my boat. You could also use 3-M 4000. Don't use Silicone. If you paint the keel slot with bottom paint like I did, I wouldn't coat the rabbet grooves where the wedges go.
You can probably take one of the bolts to the hardware store and match it up with two more stainless steel bolts of that same size and thread. There are also two stainless steel wood screws that go through the steel plates and into the bottom of the wedges. I would coat the bolts with "Never-Seize" when you put the plates back on. I hope that I was able to be of some help to you. Good luck!

 

[Joe11688]

I've talked to Rudy and he doesn't have any more wedges. It seems the mold has been lost and he can't make any more. Does anyone have centerboard wedges they might be willing to sell for an Oday Daysailer II 17'? Thanks for any help......Bob.

Bob,
Last year when I was at Rudy's store, we went up to the loft to look for those molds and he had some molds for the larger wedges, but not the ones that fit our boats. He asked me about my wedges and looking at his molds, I told him that mine were smaller.

Like Ed has said, you can probably use that other wedge as a template to construct a new one on the other side. Just trace it out on a piece of 1/4" exterior plywood and cut it out. Sand it up and coat it with Fiberglass Epoxy and mix up a filler with the epoxy and go over it with that. Try to get it the same size and thickness as the other one. It will work, I guarantee it. Once you get it installed, I'd hit it with some bottom paint. You'd never know the difference. When I removed my wedges, they were slightly broken where the wood screws go into the bottoms of both of them. I had to reconstruct them with West Systems Epoxy. It's no big deal, really. Good Luck!
Joe

 

[RacerX]

Adam,
You're probably going to have to remove your other plate and have a new one made using it as a pattern.....

Joe, thanks alot. I tried to fool with the caulk a very little bit when I noticed the wedge displaced--and its well adhered to the keel. I think I've got alot of time on my back coming up in the next few days....Rudy shows as having the plates, so I might give him a call. If he doesn't have them, I'll have to find some plate stock somewhere and measure and drill. As you say, that might be the least of my problems if the bolts are broken off in the keel ....

Many thanks again,

Adam

 

[Joe11688]

Joe, thanks alot. I tried to fool with the caulk a very little bit when I noticed the wedge displaced--and its well adhered to the keel. I think I've got alot of time on my back coming up in the next few days....Rudy shows as having the plates, so I might give him a call. If he doesn't have them, I'll have to find some plate stock somewhere and measure and drill. As you say, that might be the least of my problems if the bolts are broken off in the keel ....

Many thanks again,

Adam

Adam,
If you are having trouble getting the wedges out, just take a fish fillet knife and stick it in between the caulking and the wedge to loosen it up. You can heat the blade up a little with a blow torch to soften the caulking. I've actually removed my forward hatch a couple of times with the heated blade of a long thin knife along with some putty knives and never broke it. I've actually replaced the lens on my Gray Marine forward hatch. A little heat can remove almost anything that's glued or adhered with caulking.
I have no idea what these bolts screw into on the bottom of the keel. I'm sure that they don't just screw into the lead. Rudy may know the answer to that question. There may be a stainless steel plate inside the lead on both sides of the keel slot with threaded holes, or some kind of anchors for the bolts to hold the plates. I'm sure that you'll come up with a solution if you have to. Good luck!
Joe

 

[RacerX]

Broken....

Joe,

I got all the caulk out without too much drama, but the screw heads that hold the plate are indeed broken off. I imagine that the plate was perhaps not flush at some point, and a trailer, blocking or something even on the bottom caught the edge at some point and pulled on the plate enough to break the heads off.... I hope an easy-out/screw extractor will get them out. Its on the trailer now, but one of the cross members is just under the rear screw, so its not clear I could get that one--maybe though. As I'm sitting here, how much do you think a yard would charge to hoist and remove those two screws if I have to go that route.... If I can't get those screws to back out, doesn't look like the boat is going anywhere for awhile....

 

[RichBone]

You can move the boat backwards on the trailer by using a come-along hooked to the bow eye and back to a cross member on the trailer. At least if you have rollers on the trailer. I use a 3/4 ton on mine.

Use a loop of rope about 4 to 5 foot long (double or triple the rope depending on its size). Make the loop in the bow eye and run it back on both sides of the boat to get a reasonably straight pull. Hook up the come-along from there to the cross member. It takes some pulling to get it started moving.
Use the bow winch to move the boat back into position.

You've got a tough situation on the C/B bolts. You won't be able to drill into the bolts because they're stainless. Maybe some kind of extractor that goes over the screw. It's going to mess up the threads in the keel though. Then increase the replacement bolt size to 5/16. Do some research and ask around. I'd be hesitant to have the yard do it unless you know their mechanical abilities. This could turn into a lengthy job and hoist time can be expensive. Good luck and let us know how its going.

Rich

 

[Joe11688]

Joe,

I got all the caulk out without too much drama, but the screw heads that hold the plate are indeed broken off. I imagine that the plate was perhaps not flush at some point, and a trailer, blocking or something even on the bottom caught the edge at some point and pulled on the plate enough to break the heads off.... I hope an easy-out/screw extractor will get them out. Its on the trailer now, but one of the cross members is just under the rear screw, so its not clear I could get that one--maybe though. As I'm sitting here, how much do you think a yard would charge to hoist and remove those two screws if I have to go that route.... If I can't get those screws to back out, doesn't look like the boat is going anywhere for awhile....

I just got back today from an overnighter on my boat. So I'm reading this for the first time right now. Is the boat on a roller trailer, or a flat bunk trailer? It's really hard to speculate about how it got broke and at this point it would be a waste of time. I would give Rudy a call and find out what is involved in removing these broken bolts. He may be able to offer some suggestions. Stainless steel bolts are notorious for breaking. I had two of them on my keel that were stubborn. I used an impact screwdriver. I honestly believe that an impact cordless drill with a Phillips bit in the chuck is great for anything of this nature including stubborn machine screws on Aluminum masts. You need to be able to get at the bottom of the keel though. Like Rich pointed out, if you have a roller trailer you may be able to slide the trailer forward from under the boat to get at the bottom of the keel. This entales shoring up under the stern of the boat, tying the stern off to something solid, and shoring the boat so that it doesn't tip over on you. It goes without saying that this is very dangerous. It would involve using the tow vehicle to pull the trailer out from under the boat a little at a time until the keel is exposed. I use four sailboat stands in the stern along with 6"X6" X 3.5' blocked up to support the stern. I lift the bow with a hydraulic jack. I have a tandem bunk trailer and it takes a lot longer for me to get her off the trailer. As I pointed out though, it's extremely dangerous.
I have no idea what a yard would charge to fix it, or if they even have the knowledge of how these keel/centerboards are put together. You probably have more knowledge right now than they do. All you have to do is get the boat in a position where you can get at it. Do you have a place where you can work on it? Some boatyards won't let you work on your boat. I suppose it's for liability reasons in case you get hurt. Let us know what you decide to do.
Joe

 

[RichBone]

I haven't used one like this but it might work.
http://www.irwin.com/tools/screw-bolt-extractors/bolt-extractors

Rich

 

[Joe11688]

I haven't used one like this but it might work.
http://www.irwin.com/tools/screw-bolt-extractors/bolt-extractors

Rich

If there is anything left of the bolt to grab, I think it would work Rich.

I just got off the phone with my friend Wayne who was talking to me on his boat on the river. I asked him what he thought O'Day used for these bolts to screw into and he told me that O'Day is noted for epoxying the nuts for these bolts right into the fiberglass. In this particular case, they probably have the nuts in bedded into the lead, or however they do it. He said that the best way to get out these broken bolts is to use a Dremel Tool and cut slots in the bolts and try to work them out with a screw driver. I would go one step further and use an impact cordless drill with a straight bit, and try to work them out by going back and forth a little at a time and use WD-40. He said that if that don't work, he should try to drill them out. Drill a small pilot hole and get a machine bolt chart and use drill bits that work their way up to an EZ Out that can remove it.
I think that what Wayne says is true about O'Day Epoxying threaded nuts into Fiberglass because this is what they did with my back stay chain plate. They may have done this on your O'Day 25 too. What do you think Rich?
Ahoy!
Joe

 

[RichBone]

Yeah, I read about using a dremel. I've been using one quite a bit on my rebuild and the little cut off wheels that they have might make too wide of a slot since the screw is only 1/4". Plus ss is a bear to cut. I personally don't think that it can be drilled either. Ss can be a bitch to work.


I was thinking that the holes were drilled and tapped into the lead keel but if they're nuts epoxied in that really changes things. Makes more sense. Might be just a matter of grinding out the epoxy with a dremel and replacing the nuts.

Rudy?

Rich

 

[Joe11688]

Yeah, I read about using a dremel. I've been using one quite a bit on my rebuild and the little cut off wheels that they have might make too wide of a slot since the screw is only 1/4". Plus ss is a bear to cut. I personally don't think that it can be drilled either. Ss can be a bitch to work.


I was thinking that the holes were drilled and tapped into the lead keel but if they're nuts epoxied in that really changes things. Makes more sense. Might be just a matter of grinding out the epoxy with a dremel and replacing the nuts.

Rudy?

Rich

I'm sure that Rudy would have the answers for him.