Help me design or select a reefing system?

[OldCat]

Can I get some advice about designing a reefing system for my Catalina 22 Sport? The P.O. does not seem to have had any sail controls on the boat except for the most basic – not even a Cunningham. I knew this when I bought her, and so I get a blank slate, no hardware to remove or holes to fill. I would like some help on what will work well.

The more that I study reefing, it appears that single line systems don’t offer the best sail shape. My current factory stock main has a single reef point that is bit shallow. I am not sure a poorly shaped reefed sail with a shallow reef is much better than a well shaped full height sail. I want a reefing system that gives a good sail shape. Also, if I order a new main in the future, it will probably have two reefing points, so the system that I install would ideally adapt to this as well.

My current starting plan is to add a Cunningham, perhaps with a hook so that it can be moved up to the reef tack. I might add two Cunninghams so that the second is always ready. I also need a better outhaul (unreefed), probably 4:1, perhaps a cascaded system such as shown on Harken’s website.

If I understand correctly, the outhaul is not good for taking leech tension generated by the vang or mainsheet, hence, I will need some way to take the vertical forces, maybe by tying down the reef clew to the boom. Could I tie a line in the reef clew and tie that down around the boom? (I think that this is called an earing?) If I did that, could I put the outhaul on a shackle and move it to the new clew?

It is a small boat, I don’t want overkill in hardware, but I want a good reefed sail shape. Am I on the right track here, way off, or where do the ideas above need correction or improvement?


Thanks,
OC

 

[Bill Roosa]

sail shape and reefing gear

Hi OC
By "good sail shape" I assume you mean flat as a pancake. That is what you want in a reefed sail in all cases.
Given the smaller size of your boat I'm not sure that more than one reef would be of any use. Try checking with sailrite's build a sail kit department on line. They will give you the options that have been checked by the designers of your boat. If they call for a two reef option the surly it is worth the effort. If not, it is probably not going to be of much use. The second and third reefs are generally used during storms which are why bigger boats need them.
I'd not use the outhaul for anything except the main clew. Build another reef outhaul with a cheek block near the boom end. The line routing is typically from a pad eye directly under the reef clew up to the clew down and back to the cheek block then forward along the boom to a cleat at the mast. The reef tack is handled with a reef hook at the gooseneck. If you go the reef tack - reef hook route, you can just end the reef clew line at the mast end of the boom. If you want to be able to reef from the cockpit then you have to rig some way to get a line to do what the reef hook does. Pad eye on the boom to reef tack then down to mast base and a turning block to the cockpit. You would add another cheek block at the mast end of the boom to turn the clew reef line downward and a turning block at the mast base to aim it towards the cockpit.
BOM: for single reef to cockpit
2 cheek blocks
2 turning blocks
2 pad eyes
2 lines of appropriate diameter (3/8"?) and appropriate length

 

[Clark]

OC, there are a lot of smart people around here that could probably advise you. I'd post this question in the Ask All Sailors area and get a much wider audience or possibly in the Catalina Owners "Ask A Catalina Owner".

I can offer a couple of things. The outhaul is only taking the horizontal pressure from the foot of the sail. Leech tension is applied to the bolt rope and/or slide at the clew of the main under normal conditions and when reefed, the reefing line on a separate sheave and cringle in the main take all the stresses. Generally, the reef point on the leech should be pulling downward and rearward and the one on the luff should be downward and forward. This will flatten the sail between the two cringles - 0 draft - and reduce the forces from the wind.

Do you have any kind of reefing system now? Maybe it could be modified a bit to improve your situation.

 

[OldCat]

Another Question, and Comments.

Tks,

No reefing system at the moment, not much of any sail controls. I did tie up a simple Cunningham using a trucker's hitch - it made a big difference in unreefed sail shape. I'll do a real one when I do the reefing system.

Double reef sails are made for my boat. Winds on inland lakes can be highly variable and unpredictable, but our lakes are small, so no real waves to contend with. For a number of years, I charter sailed J22s that belong to a local sailing school, some of these boats have double reefs, some don't. There were a few times that I wish that I had the second reef, on boats that did not have it. OTH, the J is a fractional rig, the C22 a masthead, so perhaps with the smaller main, the second reef is not as needed.

Bill, The thing that I do not understand about the system that you describe - which I have seen in diagrams - is why the reef clew does not pinch and chafe the sail when it is pulled down and back hard. Can someone please explain this?

Thanks for the replies,
They are food for thought,
OC

 

[Brian M H23]

One interesting idea I've seen on some smaller boats, is a relatively deep, single reef, and a shallow aft-only reef point. You can use this in two stages by first only reefing the back of the sail - this raises the boom for increased gybe safety and gets rid of the belly in the lower bit of the sail, and can be applied by simply easing the mainsheet and pulling the reef line - no halyard to mess with

 

[shemandr]

How about looking at it this way:
At what wind speed do you feel the need to reef? If that's 15 knots then a first relatively shallow reef would be useful. You could sail comfortably to around 20 knots or so. You would need a second reef to keep you under control to around 30 knots at which point you would be considering a really small headsail, no headsail , no main and a small headsail or my favorite - going home. After all safety is nearby and maybe its just not a sailing day.
If you feel comfortable up to around 20 knots before reefing I would go for a single deeper reef which would keep you sailing to around that 30 kt. area.

 

[sailingdog]

Can I get some advice about designing a reefing system for my Catalina 22 Sport? The P.O. does not seem to have had any sail controls on the boat except for the most basic – not even a Cunningham. I knew this when I bought her, and so I get a blank slate, no hardware to remove or holes to fill. I would like some help on what will work well.

The more that I study reefing, it appears that single line systems don’t offer the best sail shape. My current factory stock main has a single reef point that is bit shallow. I am not sure a poorly shaped reefed sail with a shallow reef is much better than a well shaped full height sail. I want a reefing system that gives a good sail shape. Also, if I order a new main in the future, it will probably have two reefing points, so the system that I install would ideally adapt to this as well.

A two-line reefing system or a slab reefing system does a better job than a single-line reefing system, since you have better control over reefed sail shape.

My current starting plan is to add a Cunningham, perhaps with a hook so that it can be moved up to the reef tack. I might add two Cunninghams so that the second is always ready. I also need a better outhaul (unreefed), probably 4:1, perhaps a cascaded system such as shown on Harken’s website.

If I understand correctly, the outhaul is not good for taking leech tension generated by the vang or mainsheet, hence, I will need some way to take the vertical forces, maybe by tying down the reef clew to the boom. Could I tie a line in the reef clew and tie that down around the boom? (I think that this is called an earing?) If I did that, could I put the outhaul on a shackle and move it to the new clew?

The outhaul is a specific sail control that attaches to the clew of the mainsail and is responsible for tensioning the foot of the mainsail.

If you're talking about the reefing lines, they are generally attached to the boom, usually tied to the boom, and then the reefing line goes up to the reefing clew cringle and then down to either a cheek block or a sheave at the end of the boom and then forward to the gooseneck, where it is either cleated off or enters a cheek block or sheave and run down to the mast base where it is led aft to the cockpit.

The reason the reefing line is tied to the boom is so that it can provide a strong downward component to the force on the reefing cringle. By going to a cheek block or sheave at the end of the boom allows it to act as a outhaul and tension the reefed sail's "foot".

It is a small boat, I don’t want overkill in hardware, but I want a good reefed sail shape. Am I on the right track here, way off, or where do the ideas above need correction or improvement?


Thanks,
OC

If you want to lead the reefing lines aft, you can see one way to do it HERE.

 

[Joe]

http://www.catalina22.org/manuals/mnl87/handbook.htm#4.1

just make sure clew's reef line cheek block pulls it back and down.

 

[OldCat]

http://www.catalina22.org/manuals/mnl87/handbook.htm#4.1

just make sure clew's reef line cheek block pulls it back and down.

I found the manua'sl picture kind of funny - it more appears that the line in the picture (4.1.11) is pulling down and FORWARD .

OC

 

[Brian M H23]

I feel like one side should be directly below the reef point, the other should go back.

 

[TheWaterford]

OC, I bought the same boat as you and am working on the rigging. I live in Malaysia, the boat is in Texas and I only get a week s a year to sail.

This summer I am working on: Tiller Tamer, Boom Kicker, Outhaul, Cunningham and main reefing. Let me know if you have come up with good systems or solutions. I have not lead lines aft because of the limited deck space and limited time with the boat to figure out the best way to do it. I have to go off pictures...

Eventually I would like to lead lines aft. So I do not want to load up my boom and mast with temporary cleats/holes. So I'm trying to lead everything to a sail track cleat or a cleat that can be replace or covered by a fairlead once I lead lines aft.

Outhaul: I'm leaning toward the 4:1 external outhaul on Catalina direct, but pieced together with Harken 29mm Carbo blocks.

Reefing: 2 line. I was going to have a 29 Carbo Cheek block on the on the port side of the boom forward to a mid boom cleat. For the luff reef: Lead to a sail track/turning block/cam cleat??? I am having trouble with this. I was going to try the ronstan swiveling cleat platform to the sail track?

I will have a crowed sail track. From the deck I will have vang, kicker, cunningham, luff reef, boom downhaul? Not sure of the order of the last 3.

Cunningham: to be determined - a good purchase on the Cunningham led to the top of the boomkicker bracket.

Boom downhaul to the jam cleat as originally equipped.

New to the forum and I appreciate the feedback. photos and tips.

 

[OldCat]

C22 Sport (long)

TheWaterford, Best of Cheers – another C22 Sport owner! Too bad you cannot ship her to Malaysia. Anyway, here are some of my ideas and brainstorms about running rigging.

This summer I am working on: Tiller Tamer, Boom Kicker, Outhaul, Cunningham and main reefing. Let me know if you have come up with good systems or solutions. I have not lead lines aft because of the limited deck space and limited time with the boat to figure out the best way to do it. I have to go off pictures... Eventually I would like to lead lines aft. So I do not want to load up my boom and mast with temporary cleats/holes.

I have not led lines aft yet either, but here are my current thoughts based upon measurements made on the boat. First, a halyard winch (Lewmar #6?) is best on the port side. This way it can be aligned with the lines coming between the hatch and the grab handle. On starboard, it would need added turning blocks (yuk). Second, double line clutches seem to fit better than cam cleats due to the size and shape of the space available, though you may be able to stagger the cleats. So, on port side, I would put the main halyard and the luff reef line. On starboard, the boom downhaul and the Cunningham. These last two would have purchase from blocks and would not need a winch.

Forward, I think that individual cheek blocks on the deck will work better than the multiple block deck organizers often used to turn the lines. For my boat, this is partly due to hardware on the deck installed by the PO for the mast raising system. It also allows more precise alignment of each individual line, again due to the lack of space.

Outhaul: I'm leaning toward the 4:1 external outhaul on Catalina direct, but pieced together with Harken 29mm Carbo blocks.

I preferred to do an external outhaul the Harken way rather than the using the Catalina Direct method. IMO: The CD approach puts too much of the load in the wrong direction on the boom eye. I built a 6:1 external cascade system based upon the Harken approach. The line runs from the boom to the sail clew to a cheek block, then forward to a traveling becket block. A line from the becket goes to another cheek block near the factory cleat, back to the traveling block and then to the factory outhaul cleat. 3:1 from the blocks times 2:1 at the clew. A link to the Harken 4:1 cascade outhaul is here: http://www.harken.com/rigtips/outhaul.php

Reefing: 2 line. I was going to have a 29 Carbo Cheek block on the on the port side of the boom forward to a mid boom cleat. For the luff reef: Lead to a sail track/turning block/cam cleat??? I am having trouble with this. I was going to try the ronstan swiveling cleat platform to the sail track?

Leading the luff reef to a sail track mounted location may cause the line to chafe or at least suffer friction at the boom. This could perhaps be alleviated by mounting an aluminum block to the sail track, and offsetting some of the multiple pieces of hardware mounted there. This might take some thought to do correctly and avoid problems such as fretting corrosion or compression damage to the mast at the point of contact. I need time to think on this before I do anything.

I will have a crowded sail track. From the deck I will have vang, kicker, cunningham, luff reef, boom downhaul? Not sure of the order of the last 3.

I don’t plan to move my vang cleat from its current position near the boom, because of the limited space atop the coachroof.

Hopefully I have not screwed up my writing and left a few things out as I did in my first post – all I got from SailingDog was stuff that I already knew plus he missed some of my points, oh well. The university never figured out that I can't write, my wife helped proofread everything...

Oh, and again, cheers on the C22 Sport. I am really enjoying mine, not much reason for a bigger boat here in landlocked Colorado. Now, if I could just buy a little wind…


OC

 

[TheWaterford]

Thanks for the feedback. I will see how far I get working on it these projects this summer.