Venture 21

[mattieumm]

I just got a free 1970 venture 21! They say a free boat is a hole in the water that you throw money into... i guess thats what i plan to do.
Anyway, First off the mast step is broken off from the cabin. The previous owner has given me 2 sheets of stainless steel and suggested making a sandwich around the broken fiberglass. Is this a good idea?
On the interior, do i need to use marine grade wood when remaking the bed in the vberth.
Thanks for any help you can give, even if i didnt ask the question specifically. This V21 needs a lot of work and i'm looking forward to it. Any advice is welcome.
-Matt

 

[RECESS]

Just my two cents. I just finished digging out the wood in the transom of my boat and replacing it with marine grade plywood. $85 a sheet. What you are paying for is that there are no or much less voids in marine grade plywood. I doubt you will need that to do your bunks. Just make sure you seal the good plywood you use with epoxy resin, it will be thirsty and may need two coats. Seal it before you build with it so you do not end up with areas you cannot get to.

One more cent of advice. For the first season just get the boat to the point you can sail with it. Do not go crazy making it the greatest thing. Most people throw a lot of money in directions they wish they had not. After one summer of sailing it, you will know the best place to spend money.

Know how to build up fiber glass... resin... mat... resin, let cure, resin... mat... resin, let cure.... repeat.... repeat....repeat....repeat. Most important, be patient.

One of my buddies just bought a Venture 222 in great shape. I told him do not put a penny into the boat aside from a jib sail until after sailing it all summer.

 

[MrUnix]

Sounds as if the standing rigging went at some point and the boat de-masted.. you might have some hefty repairs to do before getting that mast back up, and it might have been made worse if it's been sitting like that exposed to the elements for any length of time. Can't really tell from just a brief description, so post pictures and I'm sure you will get lots of expert advice as to how to proceed.

Oh, and they are all holes in the water in which to throw your money.. being free just gets you in the game cheaper at first

Cheers,
Brad

 

[BobM]

No it isn't a good idea. It just isn't that hard to do the job right. Post some photos an you will get plenty of input on how to do so. Congrats on the new boat.

 

[roger10055]

repair

the repair you describe might work depending on the size of the plates. a marina would be the best way to find out. this is way too important to DYI without professional help and/or paid advice. nuts ans bolts are good but glass repair as part of the equation should be better. good luck

 

[dscribner]

Withought seeing the mast, just stabbing at it, and coming from an assumption that you are a do-it-yourselfer like me.

I'd find a lenth of aluminum tube that just slips into the mast and overlaps the break by about 3 feet either side. Wrap the tube in glass, resin, slip it into the mast, assemble the rest of the mast and clamp to a large angle to keep everything aligned. Once the resin has set, continue with the SS sandwich. This fill shares the load in all kinds of directions. Now, there are probably some seasoned sailors and mast riggers that are shaking their collective head right now. I am assuming that paying some professional $500 to repair or $1000 for a replacement mast (Used!) is not an option. It wouldn't be an option I could go for anyway.

Best of luck and have fun with the new hole-in-the-water.

Don

 

[Ross]

Re: repair

I would cut out the damage and rebuild with fiberglass and resin. Brace a plywood support covered with waxed paper or freezer paper coated side up under the hole and build up the glass/resin layers onto the properly feathered hole and the edges. If you are diligent it won't take all of a weekend.

 

[kenn]

One more cent of advice. For the first season just get the boat to the point you can sail with it. Do not go crazy making it the greatest thing. Most people throw a lot of money in directions they wish they had not. After one summer of sailing it, you will know the best place to spend money.

That's great advice. We bought a "beater" - not as bad as a damaged mast step, but ugly and with bulkhead rot. In the first year we just did enough work to sail her, and every year since I've done a bit more. She's coming along nicely.

The proper fix for the broken fiberglass around the mast step is to repair the fiberglass. Fiberglass repair isn't rocket science; it requires some books or instruction, time, care and patience. If you're not yet up to that sort of repair, it might be worth it to pay someone to do it properly, but get advice first.

 

[Texas Lake Sailor]

I would not apply resin to plywood before building with it. Cut and dry fit all your pieces then apply resin and build out, if you apply resin and then cut pieces you will find you are dulling your blades alot faster as the resin will cause you problems.

 

[sailingdog]

I would recommend you use EPOXY resin, rather than polyester or vinylester resin, since it has far greater secondary bonding characteristics than the latter two. It is also often far more forgiving than polyester or vinylester resin, especially for the amateur boatwright.

I would highly recommend NOT using the stainless steel, but to re-build/repair the fiberglass. Using the stainless steel will likely leave a hard edge along the stainless plates and cause a future failure there.

 

[Ross]

I use carbide tip saw blades exclusively and have not found paint, resin, nails, or a little dust life shortening. Whether or not you precoat you will still have the edges to do.

 

[Ross]

I would recommend you use EPOXY resin, rather than polyester or vinylester resin, since it has far greater secondary bonding characteristics than the latter two. It is also often far more forgiving than polyester or vinylester resin, especially for the amateur boatwright.

I would highly recommend NOT using the stainless steel, but to re-build/repair the fiberglass. Using the stainless steel will likely leave a hard edge along the stainless plates and cause a future failure there.

This repair should take less than about a quart of resin and a couple of pounds of cloth.

 

[mattieumm]

Thanks!

Thanks for all the advice! I think i'll go ahead and do it right and replace the fiberglass. After lots of head scratching and chin rubbing it seems to me that the steel would "create more failures in the future." Here's a link to my flickr for the boat. You can see some close up pictures of the damage and what kind of state shes in now. Thanks again!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50101808@N05/

 

[Ross]

Re: Thanks!

This is a very good fiberglass repair manual that is no cost.
http://www.ericgreeneassociates.com/images/Repair_of_Composite_Boat_Damage.pdf

 

[kenn]

You can see some close up pictures of the damage and what kind of state shes in now.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50101808@N05/

Thanks for the pictures. It's still sort of hard to determine from them how damaged structurally the mast support is (though that turned wood post is a clue, maybe...)

You might be able to knock something together quickly to support the mast for this season, then do a proper fiberglass rebuild over the winter. The SS sandwich doesn't sound like a good idea.

Pretty hull...

 

[Ross]

From the pictures of the damage it seems that there was no backing plate for the bolts just washers. Grind back to solid glass and make the repair. My estimate of less than a quart of resin and a couple of pounds of cloth is accurate. If you can bring yourself to grind the inside clean and add a few layers there it would be good.

 

[mattieumm]

Downloaded the manual.
Kenn, i dont think i get the wood post joke. I'm pretty sure the original venture 21 came with a post there, but i dunno if it was my cute wood one. Is the post turned? or did it turn to wood? i'm lost...?
Anywho, i'll probably be removing that post to put the patch on (right?). I'll read the manual, but would it be best to cut out the entire broken area or grind down and see if its broken all the way through? An old salt is coming by in the morning to give his opinion, it should be fun!

 

[mattieumm]

Whoops, looks like ross answered that question... Grind to the unbroken glass.

 

[Ross]

Start the grinding at or near the ends of the cracks and work your way around. The broken chunk willfall out when you have done enough. Tape some plastic up on the inside to avoid spraying fiberglass grinding dust all over the inside.

 

[mattieumm]

I had a friend and who builds and works on sailboats all the time come over today. He was pretty excited about the boat! Almost as excited as i am! He thinks that the stainless steel plating is a good idea. I guess the damage isnt deep enough and my plates looked big enough to him. He recommended fiberglassing over it after i've got it bolted down. Apparently once i get her scrubbed down, and get that plate on it should be good to go.
I am going to have to replace the bulkhead in the berth. The berth/bed is also structural on my boat and the rotten wood is not good. He recommended some kind of thing thats not wood. I need to start taking notes when people give me advice. I remember seeing the stuff at the marine store last time i was there.
He's also got a lot of mahogany he's going to give me to replace some of the cracked teak i have. He's also gonna build me a hatch to put in above the berth!
Oh, i'm also gonna put some backing plates around the bolts that hold those things that hold up the standing rigging (the 2 metal pieces that come up through the deck where the rigging is attached). Its just nuts and bolts now... which would probably hold but it seems a really easy thing to do to spread out the weight load on the glass. I'm going to do the same where the ladder attaches to the transom.