Solar project...sail related? You tell me.

[DannyS]

Hey guys...odd question for you...
I am an artist, I build kinetic sculpture. Much of my work is directly and indirectly based upon sailing, the process of sailing, the physics of sailing, etc. Many of my pieces are driven by small clock motors and need to be plugged in for them to function, but I've always wanted them to be self sufficient, much like the ideas and concepts found in sailors and their boats.
I know very little about photocells but I'd like to use them to provide the energy in my work so the pieces can be free of the "shorepower" they currently need. I'd like to know if it is possible to get the pieces to work from the ambient light from the spotlights found in most galleries that I show my work, and how to figure out the math and wiring to know if it will work. I'm no electrician, but I think this could be interesting.
The motors are printed on the side "115V 60HZ 3W 1RPM CW"
Anyone want to weigh in on my concept?

 

[sailingdog]

No, the lighting in the galleries is not sufficient to charge a battery via a solar panel, much less drive the clock motor.

 

[DannyS]

Let me ask this, how far away could I set up a solar panel or perhaps a wind generator (just keeping options open and interesting) if I rigged it up outside. Will there be sufficient loss of energy if the wiring run were 100 feet or more? I understand there are lots of variables here, no sun, no wind etc.

 

[packman]

I would think you'd have better luck, especially trying on solar, with dc motors. Tha ac synchronous motors you're using would have a hard time with inverter power anyway and the efficiency loss from said inverter could be fairly prohibitive. you can buy a lot of AA batteries for the cost of solar.

 

[sailaway78]

HMMMMMMMm

How bout some of the little clock motors that are available at places like Hobby Lobby. Use a single C , or two AA batterys, and will run a clock for a year or so on one set of batteries. Would be much less complicated, and less expensive.

 

[sailingdog]

Assuming you're using a DC motor, rather than an AC one... you'd still want a battery of some sort with a solar panel. Wind is far too difficult to setup in most urban areas.

Let me ask this, how far away could I set up a solar panel or perhaps a wind generator (just keeping options open and interesting) if I rigged it up outside. Will there be sufficient loss of energy if the wiring run were 100 feet or more? I understand there are lots of variables here, no sun, no wind etc.

 

[DannyS]

Good ideas guys, but the battery operated motors are not strong enough to do what I am doing with them.
Throw the money issue out the window, I'm putting proposals together for large scale installation pieces. One is for Xcel Energy and another for a public library and the concept of self sustainability is very important to the success of the pieces.
If you want to see some of my work, go to www.dannysaathoff.com click on art or video and have a look.

 

[wonkodsane]

You still want a battery bank and DC motor, an inverter is too much loss for sustainability.

Keep in mind that the sustainable and maintenance-free are two different critters.

Get a motor that works for the project, don't design the project around the motor.

Burden is a good source for surplus motors:

http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?UID=2512031708503605&catname=electric&keyword=GIDD is a good place to start for your needs, but make sure you select a motor rated for the duty you're going to put it to (I am assuming continuous duty versus intermittent).

 

[Ross]

If you worked directly with a good electrical technician. I think you could put together a small stepper motor powered by a large capacitor charged by a solar panel and controlled by an electronic timer. A computer fan draws only .18 watts and with a reduction gear could drive a 1 rpm output. You only get about 5 watts per square foot in bright sunlight. That is about 250 watts of solar energy per square yard. You would need a powerful spotlight for that.

 

[zeehag]

houses in mexico are solar powered in many cases...there is a way to do this--but ye have to spend some dough. you will need large enough panels to charge the battery bank for your usage---and large enough guage wire to keep the resistance low for the longer length needed...there are roofing components of solar electricity--i have seen panels that look like roofing shingles--uni solar made them--if they are still making panels they will be making these still--i donot kniow ho w many you will need---look for sun electric--they sell panels and look for roofing shingle panels or look for larger panels you can m ount on the roof...goood luck..is a very interesting project....should work ok when you seek on a larger scale than boating/sailing....!!!!

 

[sailingdog]

Again, I am talking about a 12 VDC motor, not a clock motor powered by AA batteries. 12VDC motors are more than powerful enough to do anything you might need.

You need to find a motor that will do what you need and size the battery and solar panel setup around that.

Good ideas guys, but the battery operated motors are not strong enough to do what I am doing with them.
Throw the money issue out the window, I'm putting proposals together for large scale installation pieces. One is for Xcel Energy and another for a public library and the concept of self sustainability is very important to the success of the pieces.
If you want to see some of my work, go to www.dannysaathoff.com click on art or video and have a look.

 

[kenn]

Good ideas guys, but the battery operated motors are not strong enough to do what I am doing with them.
Throw the money issue out the window

Excellent. I'll forward my consulting rate and contact info.

Have you used DC motors in any of these project, and if so, what voltage and measured current (amps)?

Also, you should really be more specific about what motions you require - slow rotary with high torque? fast rotary/low torque? short strong impulse? periodic long linear? The requirements for each motion are different, so no one motor would be efficient on every requirement.

If you could put a small solar panel right up to to a spotlight, you can get a useable output, but then you might as well just cut into the light fixture and steal power directly...

The artiste in me thinks that you should supply a boat-winch-like fixture attached to a small generator + battery, and the art aficionado is required to crank some 20 turns or so in order to 'interact' with the sculpture. That oughtta be worth a few $hundred on the ole grant application...

 

[Ross]

You could consider viewer participation with hand cranked generators or hand operated air pumps. I think it would be hard to incorporate the blue solar panels into your works..I have a one hundred square inch panel that in full sunlight puts out 14 volts no load. Four feet below a florescent shop light it puts out 1.89 volts open circuit.

 

[Ross]

Excellent. I'll forward my consulting rate and contact info.

Have you used DC motors in any of these project, and if so, what voltage and measured current (amps)?

Also, you should really be more specific about what motions you require - slow rotary with high torque? fast rotary/low torque? short strong impulse? periodic long linear? The requirements for each motion are different, so no one motor would be efficient on every requirement.

If you could put a small solar panel right up to to a spotlight, you can get a useable output, but then you might as well just cut into the light fixture and steal power directly...

The artiste in me thinks that you should supply a boat-winch-like fixture attached to a small generator + battery, and the art aficionado is required to crank some 20 turns or so in order to 'interact' with the sculpture. That oughtta be worth a few $hundred on the ole grant application...

They make hand cranked emergency lights and radios. Subvert one of those.

 

[DannyS]

Again, great ideas and good info. I have not used DC motors in the past and the motor that I gave as an example in the original post is just an example of what I've been using, probably not what I'll be using for these projects. The motions I've been using are very slow, time based sequences. Low torque and possibly intermittent, possibly interactive in that the viewer may need to push a button or something to make the piece function.
The library piece is a brand spanking new building that is very progressive in that they have a green roof, geo-thermal heating/cooling, lots of southern exposure (nice in this northern climate). I'm looking to tap into this concept for the work.
Ross, I have a simpler concept in that the viewer flaps their arms to make a flock of birds flap their wings, very interactive.
Kenn...check's in the mail.

 

[Ross]

Danny, we have hand operated water pumps on many of our boats. Consider pumping a reservoir full of water from a low catch basin and incorporating a water power system for the mechanism. Reservoir, spillway, water wheel, linkage to the moving parts . They can't over wind a spring or over fill the reservoir or abuse the system.

 

[DannyS]

OOOhh, Ross, you may have to be my new artistic advisor! That's a great idea! I promise to mention my creative team if I get the commission.

 

[kenn]

OOOhh, Ross, you may have to be my new artistic advisor! That's a great idea! I promise to mention my creative team if I get the commission.

...am I still getting a cheque? :cry:

 

[Ross]

Danny, If you turn the water outfall area into a green planted wetland base with a pond at one end for the catch basin................................................

 

[LANCE ON CLOUD NINE]

The solar could be scaled up as big as you want- just a function of funds. In addition, to add to the smile factor, consider a seesaw for the observers to ride. You could gear it to a generator that would spin from each up and down stroke. People always giggle when they sit on a seesaw.