head questions

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redhead78

redhead78

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Dec 30, 2009
680
jeanneau 38 gin fizz sloop Summer- Keyport Yacht Club, Raritan Bay, NJ, Winter Viking Marina Verplanck, NY
Hey guys, I have an older boat 1977 and the head setup is overboard, what do I have to do to keep from being hassled and fined. Can I install a small say 5-9 gal tank with a "Y" valve to go either overboard or to the tank? Is this sufficent. Do I have to have a deck opening pumpout? thanks, Red
 
sailingdog

sailingdog

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Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
The simplest installation IMHO is to have the head plumbed directly into the holding tank. Then have the holding tank pumpout line go to a Y or diverter valve, where one side goes up to the deck pumpout fitting, and the other goes to a diaphragm pump then to the seacock.

IMHO, this gives you the most flexibility—allowing you to dump the holding tank when out past the three-mile limit or have a pumpout facility empty the tank—while minimizing the complexity of the head plumbing. While some argue that you can no longer flush directly to the sea, I'd point out that anywhere you'd be able to do that, you could empty the holding tank as well.

If you lock the seacock handle and the diverter valve handle with cable ties, you'll be compliant for any NDZs you may be in.
 
Peggie Hall HeadMistress

Peggie Hall HeadMistress

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Dec 2, 1997
9,011
- - LIttle Rock
paulhille said:
Hey guys, I have an older boat 1977 and the head setup is overboard, what do I have to do to keep from being hassled and fined. Can I install a small say 5-9 gal tank with a "Y" valve to go either overboard or to the tank? Is this sufficent. Do I have to have a deck opening pumpout?
Click to expand
You do need a deck pumpout. And I think you need a bit larger tank than one that'll barely hold enough to last two people a day...'cuz you'd have to be in open ocean at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline--which would put you at least 3 miles ESE of Sandy Hook--to flush th toilet directly overboard legally (or dump a tank legally)...which means you're gonna have to use the tank more than you want to. So I suggest it be a minimum of 15 gallons.

If the toilet and hoses are much more than about 5-7 years old, you'd be wise to scrap everything and install a complete new system...toilet failures and odors tend to ruin a good day aboard.

And you might consider checking out the link in my signature below...I think you'd find it useful.
 
sailingdog

sailingdog

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Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
I'd highly recommend Peggie's book BTW.

I'd also agree that the 5-9 gallon tank is probably too small for a 38' boat. The real question is where to install the tank. I would recommend getting a rigid plastic tank, rather than a bladder. Ronco plastics makes a good tank and a variety of sizes and shapes, and IIRc are available through SBO's store.

Don't go cheap on the hose either. Get at least the trident 102 hose for the waste lines. IIRC, Peggie recommends Trident 148 for the intake and vent lines. :D You'll probably want to use a 1" diameter hose and through-hull for the tank vent line. Keep the vent line as short and straight as possible to reduce ventilation problems. A well ventilated holding tank will promote the good aerobic bacteria and reduce the bad (smelly) anaerobic bacteria.
 
berner73

berner73

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Jul 26, 2009
291
. . .
And you might consider checking out the link in my signature below...I think you'd find it useful.[/quote]

Peggy, just a heads up that your link directs the browser to a book titled Sailpower: Trim

We bought the right book though!
 
Tim R.

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
I agree with dog but you should be able to use a Tee in place of the Y valve. As long as you wire tie your Discharge seacock you will be legal.
 
Peggie Hall HeadMistress

Peggie Hall HeadMistress

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Dec 2, 1997
9,011
- - LIttle Rock
berner73 said:
Peggy, just a heads up that your link directs the browser to a book titled Sailpower: Trim We bought the right book though!
Click to expand
Oh hell, it got moved again :doh: Happens at least once a year, and they never tell me. Thanks for the heads up! I've fixed it. And now I get to fix it on a dozen more sites.

No I haven't fixed it yet! :bang:

This should work for now:
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?sku=77&cat=1304

I favor a y-valve over a tee...if for no other reason than it provides a means of shutting off the flow from the tank to servicethe macerator pump or diaphragm pump...'cuz nobody EVER finds out the pump needs it when the tank is empty.
 
B

Blitz

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Jul 10, 2007
722
Seidelmann 34 Atlantic Highlands, NJ
You are technically not in a no Discharge zone, meaning you can discharge treated waste if I'm reading it all correctly. So if you have the $$$, then you can go with a hold and treat system (if you don't mind the little maintenance, also the Lectra/San and electro San) - maybe Peggy could comment?

http://www.raritaneng.com/products/waste_treatment/index.html
 
Tim R.

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
Peggie Hall-HeadMistress said:
I favor a y-valve over a tee...if for no other reason than it provides a means of shutting off the flow from the tank to servicethe macerator pump or diaphragm pump...'cuz nobody EVER finds out the pump needs it when the tank is empty.
Click to expand
Good point Peggy. My pump is higher than my tank.
 
sailingdog

sailingdog

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Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
The other reason I like the diverter valve is simple. If you forget to close the seacock and don't have a diverter valve, the deck pumpout can put a lot of pressure against the check valves in the diaphragm pump, and possible damage them. With a diverter valve, there is no pressure exerted against the check valves in the diaphragm pump.

Peggie Hall-HeadMistress said:
I favor a y-valve over a tee...if for no other reason than it provides a means of shutting off the flow from the tank to servicethe macerator pump or diaphragm pump...'cuz nobody EVER finds out the pump needs it when the tank is empty.
Click to expand
 
woodster

woodster

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Sep 15, 2009
6,244
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
sailingdog said:
The other reason I like the diverter valve is simple. If you forget to close the seacock and don't have a diverter valve, the deck pumpout can put a lot of pressure against the check valves in the diaphragm pump, and possible damage them. With a diverter valve, there is no pressure exerted against the check valves in the diaphragm pump.
Click to expand
based on that post ...is it needed to have a mancerater in conjunction with a manual pump to empty the holding tank..i tend to like the manual pump concept as it seems to me that if you use it you have made a choice rather than a mistake:doh:....

regards

woody
 
sailingdog

sailingdog

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Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
A macerator is not required for use with the manual pump. I prefer the manual pump for a couple of reasons. First, the check valves in it act as a backup to the seacock—which the impeller in a macerator-type electric pump can not. Second, it requires no power and far less maintenance than an electric pump. Third, depending on how you have it plumbed, it can be used as an emergency bilge pump.

woodster said:
based on that post ...is it needed to have a mancerater in conjunction with a manual pump to empty the holding tank..i tend to like the manual pump concept as it seems to me that if you use it you have made a choice rather than a mistake:doh:....

regards

woody
Click to expand
 
Hermit Scott

Hermit Scott

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Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
sailingdog said:
The simplest installation IMHO is to have the head plumbed directly into the holding tank. Then have the holding tank pumpout line go to a Y or diverter valve, where one side goes up to the deck pumpout fitting, and the other goes to a diaphragm pump then to the seacock.
Click to expand
The seacock should be directly in the center of the stern about a foot above the water line.
 
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