Diesel behavior question

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Jan 4, 2009
45
Newport N28II Seabrook Ship Yard, TX
The Universal M18 in my boat has always run great and still is. I've noticed a behavior that I'm unsure of though. When the engine has been run under heavy load for a while the engine takes on a a much looser sound than normal. That is, the valve train seems much louder. What causes this? Is something out of adjustment?

Thanks in advance for any insight,
Darrrell
 
Sep 26, 2008
566
- - Noank CT.
check valve adjustment, Confirm oil full and changed regular, as well as correct type.
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,219
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
What you are hearing is probably the oil thinning out at higher temperatures. making less of a cushion when things crash together.. It would be a good idea to check and reset your valve clearance according to the manual.. and it would be good to check oil pressure with a real gauge to make sure that it is nothing bad. Good Luck with it..
 
Jul 5, 2007
196
Kenner Privateer 26 schooner, Carlyle Illinois
If your valve clearance is excessive; be sure and check the rocker assembly bolts for tightness. I had the same noise for about a day of running, before my rocker assembly came completely loose, and the push rods came out.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,760
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
It could also be your damper plate rattling. Does it only do this in neutral? These sounds travel through the metal and are tough to isolate. A mechanics stethoscope is a good tool to start trying to figure out where the noise is originating..
 
Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
If your valve clearance is excessive; be sure and check the rocker assembly bolts for tightness. I had the same noise for about a day of running, before my rocker assembly came completely loose, and the push rods came out.
Is your engine a volvo?
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,219
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
I think the Universal M18 is a marinized (marinated?) Kubota?
 
Jan 4, 2009
45
Newport N28II Seabrook Ship Yard, TX
check valve adjustment, Confirm oil full and changed regular, as well as correct type.
Oil is full and correct type. I haven't checked the valve adjustment as yet but plan to this weekend.
 
Jan 4, 2009
45
Newport N28II Seabrook Ship Yard, TX
If your valve clearance is excessive; be sure and check the rocker assembly bolts for tightness. I had the same noise for about a day of running, before my rocker assembly came completely loose, and the push rods came out.
Yikes.
 
Jan 4, 2009
45
Newport N28II Seabrook Ship Yard, TX
It could also be your damper plate rattling. Does it only do this in neutral? These sounds travel through the metal and are tough to isolate. A mechanics stethoscope is a good tool to start trying to figure out where the noise is originating..
It does seem to be only louder in neutral. The sound "seems" to be the normal valve train noise only amplified significantly. I'm not familiar with the damper plate. What is that? I'll google it as well.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,760
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I'm not familiar with the damper plate. What is that? I'll google it as well.
It is a dampener installed between the crank shaft of the engine and the input shaft of the transmission. Below is a picture of one I am removing and is the part with the springs in it.

The transmission needs to be removed to get at it..

 
Jan 4, 2009
45
Newport N28II Seabrook Ship Yard, TX
Thanks. Looks like a throwout bearing - which I admit makes no sense without a clutch :)
 
Jan 4, 2009
45
Newport N28II Seabrook Ship Yard, TX
So, I'm looking at the M18 schematic and trying to figure out how the damper works. It appears to be bolted to a flyheel adapter that is bolted to the flywheel. The damper splines on to a Hurth HBW50. I can't really see how the damper is contructed but can someone tell me if my guess is correct? It looks like the spline turns the inner part of the damper plate which is attached to its outer plate via springs so that the torque can be applied more smoothly when the tranny is shifted in to gear (while the tranny gears overcome inertia after being shifted)? Am I close?

Wouldn't the rattling sounds that a faulty damper make be more random? My noise is very rythmic.
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,219
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Yep, ya got it, Darrell.. The plate absorbs the minute variations in engine speed that happen as a normal part of the engine running.. Like when the engine fires, there is a big pulse in the crankshaft which twists slightly then spins the flywheel at a minutely faster speed, then the flywheel slows down as the energy in it does the work of running the alternator, etc. and doing the compression work on the other cylinder.. It seems like a smooth rotation, but it is a series of fasts and slows.. The damper plate springs squish and un-squish slightly to absorb the pulses and keep the transmission from feeling them.. So .. if the damper gets loose or cracked, the thing can (not always, but can) give a once or twice per rev “clank” .. On a two cylinder motor with the crankpins set at 180 degrees (like your engine, I think), there can also be clank every two revs . This is the same as camshaft speed and can be mistaken for valve train noise.. Of course, the damper plate also absorbs the big things like when the transmission goes into gear from neutral, but its main job is the elimination of “chatter” during regular running. I am not saying that is what ya have, just noting ..that a busted damper can make a rythmic noise.
 
Last edited:
Dec 25, 2008
1,580
catalina 310 Elk River
It's called torsional vibration, a problem with low cylinder count, light flywheel engines, as Claude has explained. They install these to reduce the wear on the gears in the transmission.

The noise I was experiencing was created as a result of the inter collar of the damper plate striping out on input spline of the transmission, causing a rhythmic "clank", loudest during idle and would diminish under load up to 1500 RPM. My conclusion for the reason of the failure was the factory installed an incorrectly sized damper plate (too stiff).

To check for play in the drive train:
With the engine not running, put then transmission in gear and by hand, twist the drive shaft back and forth. There should be very little play. Mine had quite a bit, maybe as much as 10degs of rotation as a result of the striped collar.

Apparently the more common cause for noise is that the areas on the edges of the disks where the springs contact wear and the springs become loose. I have heard they make a rattle sound, like marbles in a coffee can.

My original R&D damper was designed with a plastic ribbon, not springs to absorb the vibrations. I suppose R&D recognized the short comings of the spring design and went with the use of the flexing plastic ribbon. On mine it cracked around the mounting studs it was molded around. I'm not impressed with the R&D design.
 

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Jan 4, 2009
45
Newport N28II Seabrook Ship Yard, TX
Hey guys, you're awesome. The damper sounds like a good bet for my problem. It seems they are wear items and I bet mine has never been replaced. I wish I had a bigger boat. I have no clue how I could get in there to do this job. I guess I'll need to yank the engine out. Or call a pro. Anyone know a good diesel guy in the Galveston area?
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,219
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Wooooahhhhh..Darrell.. be sure to check the valve clearance and the rocker arm supports and stuff up there under the valve cover! before diving into the bell housing.. Ya could have something a lot less expensive to mess with, like a broken valve spring or valve keepers gone adrift, loose rocker arm support.. . Wish for the cheap and easy !
 
Jan 4, 2009
45
Newport N28II Seabrook Ship Yard, TX
Wooooahhhhh..Darrell.. be sure to check the valve clearance and the rocker arm supports and stuff up there under the valve cover! before diving into the bell housing.. Ya could have something a lot less expensive to mess with, like a broken valve spring or valve keepers gone adrift, loose rocker arm support.. . Wish for the cheap and easy !
Oh yeah. I need to pull the valve cover to do the valve clearance anyway. I've done that enough times on other engines that I'm not worried about it. I just have no experience with the tranny/bell housing, and I guess you guys have me leaning in that direction as the "more likely" problem. Just preparing myself for a worse case scenario.

Thanks for your help and concern, Claude!
 
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