What do you think would be the best tools and methods to use to get our hull smooth for maximum performance? We have a 5 year old hull that has a barrier coat and at least 5 layers of ablative paint. Some areas the barrier coat shows and others still have the 5 coats of paint, some of it in lumps were non- flaking areas were just repeatedly painted over. I don’t want to break through the barrier coat while removing the top layers as the hull is in perfect shape.
Hull sanding or ?
- Thread starter Quoddy
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And when you are done you can clean up all the dead animals and children under your boat
one problem you are going to have is what do you do with the SEVERELY TOXIC dust you're going to create? Make sure YOU have full protective gear, including a proper chemical filter-mask, and get the yard where you're working to dispose of the dust - it won't be cheap!
druid
druid
Vacuum sanding is the ONLY way to go if sanding the hull. Use something like the Dewalt orbital and a shop vac. You could get a good scraper and go at it first and touch up sand after.
This is apparently a larger concern in some places than here in Maryland. Our gravel yard has been occupied for more than 50 years as a boat yard and the cats that sleep under the boats fair as well as barn cats anywhere. Now if the yard was paved it might be different in terms of clean-up.And when you are done you can clean up all the dead animals and children under your boat
In my yard at home where I rebuilt the boat I stripped the bottom with peelaway and the weeds grow just as well as they ever did, The potatoes grow nicely and aren't at all green or blue if you prefer.
When they built condos along the water front the epa didn't get excited about the historical use of the land.
Ablative paint removal
I think some missed a key issue here; if you want to keep the barrier coat you need to carefully remove the ablative paint which can be done with a presure washer without disturbing the barrier coat. Hand scrubbing with a heavy duty grille scrubber will be much slower but will also leave the barrier coat. If you or your yard require picking up the remains of the ablative paint, you coud place several layers of burlap on the ground and dispose of that after you're done powerwashing. Then roll on a couple new coats of the barrier paint ( Iused Interlux 2000). You couldstart at thebow and continue around the hull in a continuous application as the layer ahead of you will be dry before you get back around to that side. Jack stands will need to be moved with additional stand or two to help this be a continuous operation. When you quit for the day, you will probably have done about two coats per gallon. If you need more thickness, scratch sand with 60-80 grit and begin again. If not, scratch sand enough to take off any orange peel texture and apply the new bottom paint.
I think some missed a key issue here; if you want to keep the barrier coat you need to carefully remove the ablative paint which can be done with a presure washer without disturbing the barrier coat. Hand scrubbing with a heavy duty grille scrubber will be much slower but will also leave the barrier coat. If you or your yard require picking up the remains of the ablative paint, you coud place several layers of burlap on the ground and dispose of that after you're done powerwashing. Then roll on a couple new coats of the barrier paint ( Iused Interlux 2000). You couldstart at thebow and continue around the hull in a continuous application as the layer ahead of you will be dry before you get back around to that side. Jack stands will need to be moved with additional stand or two to help this be a continuous operation. When you quit for the day, you will probably have done about two coats per gallon. If you need more thickness, scratch sand with 60-80 grit and begin again. If not, scratch sand enough to take off any orange peel texture and apply the new bottom paint.
Re: Ablative paint removal
Just some questions for clarification:
Will a pressure washer remove the existing ablative paint without the need for sanding or scrubbing? If not, would a chemical paint remover plus a pressure wash remove it?
If I do take off all the existing paint, do I need to sand the bottom before applying a new coat?
Which is easier: taking off the prior paint before putting on new paint, or would sanding the existing paint and applying a few more coats?
I know these are pretty basic questions, but I'm trying to formulate my plan of attack for the spring, and I've never done the bottom myself before.
Just some questions for clarification:
Will a pressure washer remove the existing ablative paint without the need for sanding or scrubbing? If not, would a chemical paint remover plus a pressure wash remove it?
If I do take off all the existing paint, do I need to sand the bottom before applying a new coat?
Which is easier: taking off the prior paint before putting on new paint, or would sanding the existing paint and applying a few more coats?
I know these are pretty basic questions, but I'm trying to formulate my plan of attack for the spring, and I've never done the bottom myself before.
If the paints is on RIGHT you will be powerwashing a LONG time as it takes me a full season of hand cleaning in the water every two weeks to even make a dent on one coat
If you are using and ablaitve i not sure why you would have all that much built up ?
When in dought follow the instrutions from who made the paint
If you are using and ablaitve i not sure why you would have all that much built up ?
When in dought follow the instrutions from who made the paint
removing abalative paint
Abalative paint is formulated so that excessive build up should not occur. However that said it does build in some areas or when not applied properly. The 3M scrubby, a bucket of warm water and some elbow grease will remove most of your buildup and fair the spots where your paint has chipped. Although once you have a program in place you will only want to do this to clean your bottom ( as soon after it is hauled is the easiest as the paint is still soft) and to fair out any chipped areas, if you have any. I have found if you apply a generous wash of warm water and allow it to soak in for 5 or 10 minutes first and then scrub the bottom comes up looking like it's been freshly painted. Depending on how cold your water is that you sail in and which color your bottom is you will find that you probably don't have to redo your bottom every year. I put on 1 coat every 2 or 3 years. Only retouching the waterline and the leading edge of the bow and keel and any little chips that may have occured. This treatment does not look good on Shark White as the old paint goes white and the fresh is a light grey, but on the other colors it's fine. We used to be shark white and changed for that reason. A couple of days before launching I lightly rescrub the bottom to reactivate the paint, let it dry and do the touch-ups mentioned. So far 8 years later we have nevered compromised our barrier coat and have almost no build up. We also have no problem with slime or growth to speak of. Some years are a bit different, so we wash the bottom half way through the season, but that has only happened once. I'm sure you guys can do this, I'm a girl and it only takes me a hour or two at most. Good luck. The other good thing about doing it yourself is you get a chance to really look at the bottom and notice any changes that have occured from year to year.
Abalative paint is formulated so that excessive build up should not occur. However that said it does build in some areas or when not applied properly. The 3M scrubby, a bucket of warm water and some elbow grease will remove most of your buildup and fair the spots where your paint has chipped. Although once you have a program in place you will only want to do this to clean your bottom ( as soon after it is hauled is the easiest as the paint is still soft) and to fair out any chipped areas, if you have any. I have found if you apply a generous wash of warm water and allow it to soak in for 5 or 10 minutes first and then scrub the bottom comes up looking like it's been freshly painted. Depending on how cold your water is that you sail in and which color your bottom is you will find that you probably don't have to redo your bottom every year. I put on 1 coat every 2 or 3 years. Only retouching the waterline and the leading edge of the bow and keel and any little chips that may have occured. This treatment does not look good on Shark White as the old paint goes white and the fresh is a light grey, but on the other colors it's fine. We used to be shark white and changed for that reason. A couple of days before launching I lightly rescrub the bottom to reactivate the paint, let it dry and do the touch-ups mentioned. So far 8 years later we have nevered compromised our barrier coat and have almost no build up. We also have no problem with slime or growth to speak of. Some years are a bit different, so we wash the bottom half way through the season, but that has only happened once. I'm sure you guys can do this, I'm a girl and it only takes me a hour or two at most. Good luck. The other good thing about doing it yourself is you get a chance to really look at the bottom and notice any changes that have occured from year to year.
Ok, what have we here?
The white is the gel coat but what is the brown layer? What would you recommend for treatment? It sits on a trailer, I don't plan on keeping the boat in the water much more than 2-3 weeks at a time. Will it need a coat of ablative paint or just sand and repaint what I am guessing is the barrier coat? What do you recommend for a barrier coat?
The other option would be to take it down to the gel coat, which seems like a lot of work.
The white is the gel coat but what is the brown layer? What would you recommend for treatment? It sits on a trailer, I don't plan on keeping the boat in the water much more than 2-3 weeks at a time. Will it need a coat of ablative paint or just sand and repaint what I am guessing is the barrier coat? What do you recommend for a barrier coat?
The other option would be to take it down to the gel coat, which seems like a lot of work.
Attachments
Do you sail in salt water and leave the boat in the water? If not, then you might not need bottom paint. I had a smaller boat in the gulf waters on weekends from Friday to Sunday night or longer and it had gelcoat only. In 5 years scraped 1 barnacle. I had my 37 hauled and painted last summer but we have an outfit that will dive and clean for about 85.00 a month on a 40 foot charter boat and in the winter does not need it that often. Wished I had found them earlier but I wanted to see the bottom anyways(surveyor says is in excellent condition). Once they pulled it, they scraped the barnacles with spades and then sanded it sitting in the boat yard right next to Gulf Drive on the barrier island(don't know what they did with all the scrapings and stuff but shouldn't be any barnacles growing in the dirt where they had it parked, rained pretty good right after they painted it, too) So, more than likely I probably won't have it painted again for along time and will go with the diver service whenever it may need it again. The bottom paint was 85 percent copper. The boat was just as fast after I beached it and scraped it as it was after I had it painted.
Chemical
I've used marine safety strip which worked well. Practical Sailor likes the soy based stripper as well. Not too toxic. Less elbow grease than sanding. Will leave barrier coat intact.
I've used marine safety strip which worked well. Practical Sailor likes the soy based stripper as well. Not too toxic. Less elbow grease than sanding. Will leave barrier coat intact.
If you want to save the barrier coat a chemical stripper is really the best process. Unfortunately IF the paint was applied correctly, as in hot coated to the barrier coat, you will never get it all off as you have a chemical bond between the first layer of paint and the barrier coat. If it is flaking there is a high likely hood that it was not applied correctly. This is okay though as long as you get the thick spots. A pressure washer will take a long, long time to remove that many layers of bottom paint if at all.
I barrier coated my C-30 back in 1998 using Interlux barrier coat and hot coated directly to it with a multi-season ablative. I saw the hull last winter, 11 years later, and it is still looking as good as it did the first season, no peeling or flaking anywhere. Hot coating works very, very well so long as you don't over apply the paint.
When you start fresh apply only two coats of ablative but of differing colors. When you begin to see the first color touch up those areas only. Do not just put on a fresh coat each year when using ablatives only apply as necessary, where necessary..
I barrier coated my C-30 back in 1998 using Interlux barrier coat and hot coated directly to it with a multi-season ablative. I saw the hull last winter, 11 years later, and it is still looking as good as it did the first season, no peeling or flaking anywhere. Hot coating works very, very well so long as you don't over apply the paint.
When you start fresh apply only two coats of ablative but of differing colors. When you begin to see the first color touch up those areas only. Do not just put on a fresh coat each year when using ablatives only apply as necessary, where necessary..
I picked up on the "maximum performance" aspect of your question. To me, that means 'baby's bottom smooth'. It seems the last painter was not a perfectionist aye.
Choose your favorite method to remove the ablative coats. I just used scrapers and orbital sander. (got tired of stripper burning through the shirt)
When you get the ablative off, you can then decide how best to handle the barrier. A cured epoxy barrier must be sanded for adhesion. And going for the 'baby bottom' smooth finish will probably require some sanding. Everybody talks about 80 grit but I just finished my bottom last week and found 100 grit superior for smoothing. It will smooth out any defects and orange peel while scuffing the surface for the finish coats. You can spot in any thin areas or add a whole coat of barrier for that uncured, molecular interaction, (hot coat effect) with the finish coats.
Don't over-think it, it's not rocket science. It's just a long and boring job working with your arms above your head.
Choose your favorite method to remove the ablative coats. I just used scrapers and orbital sander. (got tired of stripper burning through the shirt)
When you get the ablative off, you can then decide how best to handle the barrier. A cured epoxy barrier must be sanded for adhesion. And going for the 'baby bottom' smooth finish will probably require some sanding. Everybody talks about 80 grit but I just finished my bottom last week and found 100 grit superior for smoothing. It will smooth out any defects and orange peel while scuffing the surface for the finish coats. You can spot in any thin areas or add a whole coat of barrier for that uncured, molecular interaction, (hot coat effect) with the finish coats.
Don't over-think it, it's not rocket science. It's just a long and boring job working with your arms above your head.
Thanks
Thanks for all the ideas. ” Peel away marine strip II “ says it will leave the barrier coat, between that and the other methods, I should get it right. Smooth as silk and try to keep it that way.
Thanks for all the ideas. ” Peel away marine strip II “ says it will leave the barrier coat, between that and the other methods, I should get it right. Smooth as silk and try to keep it that way.
As I previously spent an entire summer grinding away decades of bottom paint, with
24 grit to get all off, of course I violated the gel coat badly and had to fair out entire keel
with West System fairing compound, long board 80 grit sanding, then four coats of barrier
coat 2000 from Interlux. In retrospect I would soda blast the entire bottom, done in 1/2
day, can paint three coats of barrier coat in the afternoon, and balance following day.
At that point you are able to apply your bottom paint and commission boat in several days. If you do not want to go deeper due to the condition of your keel, I recommend
80 grit sanding, several coats of barrier coat then apply your bottom paint of choice.
This will add many enjoyable days of sailing not sanding. Based on the type of paint you
elect predicates how fast your keel will be. You cannot burnish ablative paint however
there are numerous hard bottom paints that may be burnished and will be faster.
24 grit to get all off, of course I violated the gel coat badly and had to fair out entire keel
with West System fairing compound, long board 80 grit sanding, then four coats of barrier
coat 2000 from Interlux. In retrospect I would soda blast the entire bottom, done in 1/2
day, can paint three coats of barrier coat in the afternoon, and balance following day.
At that point you are able to apply your bottom paint and commission boat in several days. If you do not want to go deeper due to the condition of your keel, I recommend
80 grit sanding, several coats of barrier coat then apply your bottom paint of choice.
This will add many enjoyable days of sailing not sanding. Based on the type of paint you
elect predicates how fast your keel will be. You cannot burnish ablative paint however
there are numerous hard bottom paints that may be burnished and will be faster.
Ablative Paint
It is my experience that ablative paint does build up and therefore does start to flake off when it gets too thick. I was advised by my surveyor to "sail some off" by skipping a year. I did just a band around the water line and the top of the rudder last year and the paint on the hull seems diminished. It also started to chip quite a bit more, hopefully making it easier to do a bottom job this year. The ablative I typically use, Pettit Hydrocoat, says it will go two years and from now on that is my plan. Two years with just the waterline done the second year. I don't like to paint the bottom. It's not fun. She will be a little less uniform the second year, but perhaps I'll have some fun and write "paint me" on the hull so folks can see it when the rails down LOL.
It is my experience that ablative paint does build up and therefore does start to flake off when it gets too thick. I was advised by my surveyor to "sail some off" by skipping a year. I did just a band around the water line and the top of the rudder last year and the paint on the hull seems diminished. It also started to chip quite a bit more, hopefully making it easier to do a bottom job this year. The ablative I typically use, Pettit Hydrocoat, says it will go two years and from now on that is my plan. Two years with just the waterline done the second year. I don't like to paint the bottom. It's not fun. She will be a little less uniform the second year, but perhaps I'll have some fun and write "paint me" on the hull so folks can see it when the rails down LOL.
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