Bought a Hunter 23 1987 boat with the wrong mast

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teresa24

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Jun 8, 2009
12
2 23 Groton Long Point
To all the nice people have who responded to the above chain - to update:
The seller never came through with a mast and I finally had to pay a boat hauler to haul my boat away from my marina as the marina was going to charge me parking space fees for the rest of the summer because I never got my boat with the wrong mast in the water and it was taking up his parking lot.
I brought the seller to small claims court and won last month. I represented myself. He had an attorney. The attorney appealed the decision. I have to go to Superior court now. I will represent myself again. This seller has money and no morals and would rather pay his attorney then do the right thing for me and my kids even though he clearly was wrong.
Does anyone have the original specifications from the Hunter manufacturer for the Hunter 23 1987 mast? Any other advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks to all!
HappyNew Years
T
 
petersea

petersea

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Sep 26, 2008
566
- - Noank CT.
Teresa,
Sorry it had to go that way but congratulations on winning in court, I don't see how you could lose even with the appeal. Hopefully you will be boating with a different boat or the correct mast this summer. Don't give up ! ! Sorry I don't know the specs.
 
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george16923

Hi

Scott B said:
Have you tried Hunter Marine
Click to expand
I have been reading this thread since it started. I am so sorry you have had to go through all of this, but real glad to hear you beat him in small claims court. I feel confident you will win the big battle too!
I had a H23. it is a great boat and you and your kids will love it! Do check the Hunter Site, as I am sure that will be the best advice. Alot of people here have said that they are very helpfull. Also, right here, in the archives, is tons of info on the H23 mast. I think they equiped the H23 with 2 different masts, Kenyon and Z- spars? Mine was a Kenyon, but alot has been written about both, and from very experienced people. It could help!
Good luck, keep posting
 
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george16923

DUMB

george16923 said:
I have been reading this thread since it started. I am so sorry you have had to go through all of this, but real glad to hear you beat him in small claims court. I feel confident you will win the big battle too!
I had a H23. it is a great boat and you and your kids will love it! Do check the Hunter Site, as I am sure that will be the best advice. Alot of people here have said that they are very helpfull. Also, right here, in the archives, is tons of info on the H23 mast. I think they equiped the H23 with 2 different masts, Kenyon and Z- spars? Mine was a Kenyon, but alot has been written about both, and from very experienced people. It could help!
Good luck, keep posting
Click to expand
Boy do I feel dumb. Just reread all the posts from the begining. Jim said it better then I could have, Check the archives!
It is alot of info, but well worth it.
Do wish you the best, the boat is worth it, and you and family will love it
 
Dave5031

Dave5031

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Jun 4, 2004
59
- - Mancos Co.
Mast

Definately were two different masts for that model, mine was a Z-Spar. Not sure what the differences were butHunter should be able to help you with that, sorry for your troubles and good luck in court.

Dave
 
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Jim Kolstoe

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Jun 5, 2004
209
- - Eugene, OR
Hi Teresa. Sorry to hear that your problems with the guy have continued, but congratulations on your small claims victory. In preparing for your Superior Ct debut, you might invest in a 1/2 hr or 1 hr consultation with a lawyer to review your theory of the case, pleadings and evidence, including possible evidentiary objections you might face. I suspect the court will want to know why you don't regard the offered mast as sufficient, and what it will cost to replace it with the correct mast. Unless one lives nearby, you might consider finding out the rules for presenting telephonic testimony from a Hunter or a rigging/spar company engineer (expert witness) regarding why the mast offered is not appropriate or interchangeable with the correct mast. Additionally, you might look into the possibility of damages for lost use and for storage/slip/moorage fees incurred because his actions cost you the ability to use your boat. Keep in mind as you go to court that trials are really just an odd form of story telling, and the rules of evidence are just trying to assure that the court has reliable information to make its decision.
Good luck and let us know the outcome.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
 
petersea

petersea

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Sep 26, 2008
566
- - Noank CT.
Teresa, Jim makes a good point about being prepared for Superior Court as it is a higher level. I would suggest you concentrate on the difference in the mast such as height,diameter, rigging (back stay vs no back stay spreader angle etc etc) and the fact that with a different mast and boom the sails are now a issue most likely needing to be modified to fit the new mast and boom (not a cheap or easy modification and it will need to be done by a sail loft as most people don't have the equipment to do this modification). Check such things as were the winches and associated hardware are located and if they need modified and cost to do so. My thought would be to hammer on the mechanical and engineering aspect of the case. I would also make the point that the manufacture designed it one way for safety and clearly this offered mast is not original manufacturer approved. Jim also makes a good point about loss of use, possibly a additional claim as well as cost incurred by you in this ordeal. I would also hammer away at the point that the seller sold you "deficient goods". Maybe it is about time you tell us who this seller is, and what his business name is. I would consider it a public service ! !
 
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teresa24

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Jun 8, 2009
12
2 23 Groton Long Point
To all my sailing friends,
Thank you for your responses.
I will take all of these ideas with me. From what I've learned about boats at this point, I think I could build my own mast! I have learned for sure that there is no possible way from the height of this mast in reference to the sail and the angled back spreaders needed for the Hunter that this mast could possibly work. Its a difference of at least 5 feet. The sail is the same height as the mast. I cannot imagine what he is thinking at this point. Except for ego and that he would rather pay his attorney then to compensate me for my the costs that I've incurred or to do the right thing - which is to fix the problem or to have taken it back the boat at beginning of last summer when i asked. I did lose a lot of money from the indirect costs associated with the boat plus an entire summer of not sailing and broken promises to my children.
This man is from Rhode Island, he is a boat hauler/seller. In small claims court his attorney deemed him an expert in the field. Ironic! He works from North Kingston, RI and has a name that references his boat hauling business. I'm not sure if its appropriate to put his name on this site and I don't want to get in trouble for it. But if I find out that it is Ok, I will be happy to share.
I appreciate everyone's help and wish me good luck in my trial.
Thank you.
Teresa
 
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teresa24

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Jun 8, 2009
12
2 23 Groton Long Point
Thanks Jim, In preparing my own Motions, as a non-attorney, against the chain of Motions filed by the attorney, I finally had to seek the assistance of an attorney. There is a lot to learn in the legal field and having not gone to law school myself, I think I was at a tad bid of a disadvantage :)! So the challenge of doing this myself was compromised and I sought the help of a kind and exceptional attorney.
I will let you all know how this turns out.
Thank you again!
Teresa
 
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Steve Dion

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Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Teresa:

I suggest that you proceed with your legal action and have the boat repaired. You can contact either Rig-rite, Charleston Spar or Seco South, they should have the specs and can help you out. Once you have the entire boat fixed you should also have a final price too.

I am guessing, but I would say that you are looking at $5-6k plus a riggers time to set her up.
 
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teresa24

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Jun 8, 2009
12
2 23 Groton Long Point
Thank you for that information. I didn't think about the rigger. I'll let you know how I make out.
Thanks again,
Teresa
 
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Steve Dion

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Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Teresa:

While this may be a do-it-yourself job, you should hire a pro for the first time setup. If you get one that is knowledgeable about trailable boats, they can help you make the setup as simple as possible.

Good luck! You may need it with the way our court systems seem to work. I would think that this is a slam dunk case, but you never know.
 
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