C-22 Seatrial Req'd?!

[malyea]

I'm shopping for an older C-22 swing keel, trailer and outboard for under $5,000. There's a number of boats around the country but not all are available or able, for one reason or another, to be sailed for a seatrial.

It makes me nervous to think of dropping $5K into a boat I haven't had out on the water for at least 1 to 2 hours.

I like the fact that I'll get to inspect it high and dry on a trailer, but I just can't get past needing a seatrial - am I putting too much emphasis on getting it wet?

Would 'you' buy a C-22 without a seatrial?

 

[Benny]

A lot of sellers of small boats are suspicious about people wanting to get free rides. I know of an instance where a potential buyer showed up at the dock with his whole family, a packed lunch and a cooler full of drinks. In order to show that you are serious about purchasing the boat you need to offer to put down a deposit. In the abscence of a contract and an escrow agent I would consider a $200 deposit a fair amount. If you do not like the boat then you walk away and the seller gets some compensation for expenses and his time. The price of $5,000 for an older C22 seems a little steep. Of course the condition of the boat, sails, outboard engine and trailer may merit it but I would suggest you expand your search. You may look in NC, SC and Florida as they would be reasonable distances to trailer a boat home. Early 80's C22s in relative good shape with an outboard and trailer can probably be found for around $3,500.

 

[Ron20324]

With a swing keel, I'd say a sea trial is a must.

 

[rpwillia]

C-22s are pretty simple

I used to own a 1975 model in the late 90's (making it nearly 25 years old). If you crawl underneath the boat it is pretty easy to inspect the keel itself from below. The other thing to look for is cracking in the fiberglass where the swivel pin is mounted to suspend the keel. These are relatively inexpensive boats and simple in design and construction. I am not sure a sea trial is really needed unless you have never sailed one and want to see how it handles. Fun boat.

Some of the other posters are right. There are a lot of people out there who think nothing of wasting your time and getting a boat ride for a day.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Might be hard to get a sea trial this time of year. I would recommend it simply because I owned one and did not like it. I wrote about this recently. Mainly it is the way the mainsheet/traveler is designed. I tried some mods that helped but ultimately sold the boat. It had newer sails, was solid and dry, and I paid less than $2500. with motor but no trailer.

 

[TimCup]

I'll answer you and respond to Ron-

In short, yes, I'd require a seatrial. You're in Georgia, not Maine, so launching isn't impossible. If it were me, I'd have everything done first- agreed on a price, method of payment, etc. I would have inspected everything I could while on the trailer, and if having someone else checking the boat (surveyor, or buddy), have that done. Agree to buy subject ONLY to an issue that appears on the trial run. The seatrial doesn't have to be long, just enough to get the motor up to operating temp (15-20 min) to make sure it doesn't just run well when cold, and make sure the boat doesn't leak from below (newsflash- most leak from above, and if it doesn't, it will!).

Ron, I fell for that trick myself selling my powerboat this summer... the guy told me ahead of time he was bringing his wife, and didn't want me to think he was just wanting a free cruise. No problem, I said..... he shows up with his wife (in her 50's?) and two girls (17-20?). We take the boat out in Tampa Bay, and the girls break out cameras! Uh-oh, I think, then figure we're still okay. He seems interested in the boat, but has zero experience.. at least he'll be easy to impress, I'm thinking. Then dolphins come swimming by, and we stop for more pictures.. they're all loving it! And I'm thinking "don't come down too far on the price"...

Ends up, the girls are exchange students that speak very little english. We get back to the dock, and the wind is on the nose. I power down at JUST the right moment, and the boat kisses the dock as softly as a down pillow. Things are going so well, I'm asking myself if I really want to sell! We tie up, and the girls thank me for the ride with a series of bows and smiles. As I start to get down to brass tacks, his wife and girls head for the car, and I get that sinking feeling... and being in the car business for 20 years, I recognize this guy's looking for a quick gettaway.

I'd been had.

Sometimes urban myths are real, sometimes just myth. I don't know if you can liquor a fish to death, or how many guys get a great paint job with roll and tip ( not at my marina!!), but the old "pretend to buy for a free cruise"? Yeah, that one's real!!!


cup

 

[Warren Milberg]

I'm not sure how it works for a trailerable boat, but typically the intended buyer pays for all costs associated with a sea trial. I have always recommended to clients that they, and their surveyor, take a boat out (with its owner) for a sea trial to make sure everything, from the engine to the sails and steering, work as stipulated in the sales contract. From launch, a sea trial can typically be done in about a half hour. Regardless of what a boat may cost, you do not want to be surprised by its performance, or lack thereof, the first time you take it out as your boat. In cold climates during winter, when sea trials really cannot be done, I recommend that a mutually agreed amount of the sales price (usually 10 per cent) be set aside in escrow until such time as the boat can be launched and sailed. At that time, the escrow is either turned over to the seller if the boat performs (that is all systems work) as advertised, or you negotiate with the seller at that time for the repair or replacement of gear not working as stipulated in the sales contract.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Tim, it's not always so obvious either

In short, yes, I'd require a seatrial.

I'd been had.

Sometimes urban myths are real, sometimes just myth.

When we sold our C25 in 1998, we had a couple and their two kids come on the sea trial. We'd done all the "homework" as suggested here: deposit, written agreement pending sea trial and survey, haulout, etc.

Had a lovely day on the water, I got to sail the boat "one last time" and they seemed to learn a lot and enjoyed it. The wife was so busy making new "rules" for the kids that it was starting to take all the fun out of the day, so I suggested two simple rules that we've always used to keep it simple: 1) One hand for you and one hand for the boat; 2) When the skipper says to do something, do it, first & immediately, then, if necessary, ask why; never the other way around.

Those two have served us well for over a quarter of a century, with an easy going approach to fun and enjoyment, as well as learning. She started using it as we turned for home, and all of a sudden the yelling, arguing and disagreements disappeared and even the kids started having fun.

Man, I thought, this boat is now sold.

NOT.

When it was hauled the next day, there were a few blobs on the painted lead keel. She mistakenly thought they were fiberglass blisters and literally ran screaming from the boat yard!!! I have this picture in my head like a cartoon character, of her running away, pursued by the surveyor brandishing his survey yelling, "But it's only paint on the keel, the boat is perfect, why are you running away!?!?"

The next week a fellow on our dock saw the for sale sign still there, called me and bought it without another haul simply based on the week old survey.

He still has the boat. On the same dock since we originally bought her in 1987.

And I never knew if the family was trolling or not.

That said, when we bought our C22 in 1983 we didn't bother with a sea trial. The boat was only a year and a half old, in perfect condition on a trailer. Older boats may require a different approach. But rarely is the swing keel a problem if the rest of the boat is well taken care of.

Kinda like this: My experience has been that a close observation of the seller and those things surrounding them can often give a clue as to the seller's approach to care & maintenance in general. Rare is the person who lets their car stay dirty, with leaking oil, grating brakes, etc., while meticulously caring for and maintaining their diesel engine & fiberglass boat.

 

[Hermit Scott]

The first boat I looked at buying was in the water. I went down and visited the seller on the boat. I took some pictures, came back home and posted them on this forum.
I was immediately cautioned about the swing keel. I told the seller I had cash in hand and that all I needed to do was take it out of the slip into some clearer water to inspect the keel by diving under the boat.
The seller told me I wasn't serious about buying the boat and he wasn't up for free rides. Since I had driven 4 hours, with $3,500 in my pocket, to see that boat, I think anyone can see I was serious. My guess is he has something to hide under that old boat he didn't want me to see.