Macgregor Rudder Float?

Paul Brinkley · Sep 20, 2009

The hole will let water enter the rudder so it will go down and NOT float. You will have to rig a line to pull it up, and the water will drain as you do. -Paul

Robspan · Sep 21, 2009

It's important that the rudder be all the way down when you're sailing. If it's even a little way up, it won't steer well. Mine came with a line that holds the rudder down. On the advice of this forum, I got a cam cleat that flips up and releases the hold-down line if the rudder hits an obstruction.

Sumner · Sep 21, 2009

SW Fla Guy said:
Thanks for the reply. Because of the depth of the area where I sail I really like the idea of the flip up cam cleat. By chance can you direct to a source?

We love ours and have had no problem with it. There is more here along with a link to Duckworks where we bought ours........

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/rigging-1.html

c ya,

Sum

Justin_NSA · Sep 21, 2009

Interesting. I need to get one for my 26. I just have a clamcleat and I worry sometimes about running the rudder aground

MrMikey64 · Sep 21, 2009

Another good idea...

Hear hear! I DEFINITELY need to do this mod. I have a feeling that the PO might have had a problem with this, as the pics show

. OUCH!!

timebandit · Sep 23, 2009

I use these to hold down my rudder--
http://www.idasailor.com/catalog/pr...d=442&osCsid=42d038df61348eb419bac37ac23adea0

Been using the same one for a couple of years now--Gotta bend way over to insert it though.

Sumner · Sep 23, 2009

timebandit said:
I use these to hold down my rudder--
http://www.idasailor.com/catalog/pr...d=442&osCsid=42d038df61348eb419bac37ac23adea0

Been using the same one for a couple of years now--Gotta bend way over to insert it though.

I looked at those and almost ordered some, but went with the release cleat instead. If we were sailing in deep water, I imagine you are in the ocean, I might use those, but we would of already gone through 5-6 of those at least by now in the lakes we have been in. We usually also pull the rudder .....

............ up on anchor since sometimes we are in less than 6 feet of water and don't want the boat swinging sideways on the rudder.

Where do you sail out of? When we were in LA a week or so ago we walked the Long Beach marine that is down the PCH (not the one by down town). It was our first chance to see a lot of sailboats and we enjoyed it. We didn't look at all the 1900 slips, but saw a couple M's and a couple X's and a 26D while there.

c ya,

Sum

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Robspan · Sep 24, 2009

My experience is about the same as Sum's. Shortly after I bought my Mac, I ordered something else from Idasailor and had them throw in some shear pins. But the pop up clam cleat has worked so well that I haven't felt the need to use them. Also, since I usually have to raise the rudder to get to/from my ramp, the pop up is a lot more convenient.
If I were ever to enter a race, or take a long cruise in deep water, I would definitely use a shear pin. Also, they're good to have as a standby in case something happens to the primary arrangement. As we all know, Murphy was a sailor, and if something does happen to the pop up, it will happen at the worst possible time - when you really need the rudder.

timebandit · Sep 24, 2009

I think the 25 with its long heavy keel hits things before the rudder and I always lock them both down down.

I keep my boat at home and launch at a 24hr ramp up the river from the Queen Mary just on the other side of the bridge.

We usually leave the house around 8pm and cover the 70 miles in about 90 min. if we dont stop for dinner.

The ramp and parking lot is well lit but things really get wet from the dew.

We dilly dally geting the boat rigged and loaded and launch on a ebbing tide (and sometimes not).

The harbor is well lighted and some times if the timming is just right there is a slight bit of wind for a midnight sail with the genny we just ghost along while the rest of the bay is asleep.

We usually anchor at White Island (an artifical oil island) and get up when we please.

The wind usually comes up around 11am.

Where do you sail out of? When we were in LA a week or so ago we walked the Long Beach marine that is down the PCH (not the one by down town). It was our first chance to see a lot of sailboats and we enjoyed it. We didn't look at all the 1900 slips, but saw a couple M's and a couple X's and a 26D while there.

JDK · Sep 24, 2009

Here's the one we use, with the link to The Chandlery http://www.thechandleryonline.com//product.asp?dept_id=1736&pf_id=151_HCL257. This cleat is the real deal if you sail or motor in shallow water. I wish I had a picture of the rudder deployed, but you get the idea.

JDK

Sumner · Sep 24, 2009

JDK said:
Here's the one we use, with the link to The Chandlery http://www.thechandleryonline.com//product.asp?dept_id=1736&pf_id=151_HCL257. This cleat is the real deal if you sail or motor in shallow water. I wish I had a picture of the rudder deployed, but you get the idea.
JDK

That is the same one in my picture above, I just mounted it ............

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/rigging-1.html

...........on top of the cleat that was already there thinking I might have some reason to use that cleat, but I haven't, so I'll probably move it right down on the tiller. As I mentioned Duckworks has them also (see the link).

We have never had it release except when it should of and feel good about the fact it is there and has gotten us out of some dumb mistakes with no damage to the rudder,

Sum

Sumner · Sep 24, 2009

timebandit said:
.........I keep my boat at home and launch at a 24hr ramp up the river from the Queen Mary just on the other side of the bridge..........

Thanks, that is great info. We stayed right across from there at Palm Beach Park RV park last fall with the teardrop while we were moving Ruth's stuff from there to here.

Is that a public ramp?? Fees?? How long can you leave a vehicle/trailer there??

We have to go back to Long Beach in the fall and have considered taking the Mac with us and putting in there, so this helps a lot. Have you used the ramps at either of the Long Beach public marinas. I see they have guest slips that are really reasonable by the night, I think 80 cents a foot, but wonder if they ever have any open. We will be there for about 9 days at that time and most of the time will be free.

c ya and sorry to mess up this thread about rudders, so you can send me a personal message if you want, but this might be good info for others,

Sum

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Mac Daddy · Sep 24, 2009

Anybody use a shear pin on the swing keel?

walt · Sep 25, 2009

I didnt go the jam cleat route a few years ago to hold the rudder down because my expereince with jam cleats has been that the rope "backs off a little" to hold and also tends to loosen "a little" over time. Im using a modified bungie approach instead which has worked through many rudder groundings. The bungie always keeps tension on the rudder down holding rope so the rudder stays tight in the down posiition.

But, people are happy with the jam cleat method... Seems you would have to re-tighten it every once in a while but maybe its just not enough slip or stretch to matter?

Robspan · Sep 25, 2009

Walt, wouldn't the bungee tend to stretch a bit when you're moving quickly?

timebandit · Sep 25, 2009

I don't think a shear bolt will hold the forces of a heavy keel.

I use the big bolt through the hole to be sure the keel stayes where it was ment to be.

Some put the bolt in before lowering the keel so that when the keel hits something it just moves over it but then it slams down so hard that it bends the bolt and can be hard to remove.

THEY say that without the keel being pined the boat may not right it self in a knock down.

My boat just sails better keeping the keel in the right place.

Mac Daddy said:
Anybody use a shear pin on the swing keel?

Sumner · Sep 25, 2009

walt said:
I didn't go the jam cleat route a few years ago to hold the rudder down because my experience with jam cleats has been that the rope "backs off a little" to hold and also tends to loosen "a little" over time. Im using a modified bungee approach instead which has worked through many rudder groundings. The bungee always keeps tension on the rudder down holding rope so the rudder stays tight in the down position.

But, people are happy with the jam cleat method... Seems you would have to re-tighten it every once in a while but maybe its just not enough slip or stretch to matter?

Walt I haven't noticed what you are talking about at all. I pull it tight in the morning when I put the rudder down and it is still tight at night. By tight I mean I couldn't pull it any tighter at night at all. There is no give to the system at all.

I can't picture a system that would use a bungee that if you were to pull on the rudder you wouldn't feel some give, but I probably don't understand totally what you are doing. With the releasing cam cleat there is no give if you were pulling on the rudder, say when it is on the trailer, until you reach the point where it trips, and that is adjustable.

Remember there is very little rope (see above) in the system as it is a cable from the rudder up through the vertical section (whatever that is called) and out the top and over the top. The rope is only the last few inches and it held even with that old line in the picture that I have now replaced.

They aren't expensive, so what do you have to loose, try one,

Sum

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walt · Sep 25, 2009

Hopefully the attached pictures show the bungie arrangement Im using. I cant say for sure that the rudder doesnt move a little when for example Im motoring or sailing "fast" but I just dont think it is. Id probably "feel" this if it were and I dont.

When I "set" the rudder downhaul, I pull the rudder down tight (I have 2:1 leverage at the rudder and its all low stretch rope) and then "hook" the rope with the bungie and then cleat the rope with a fixed jam cleat. The rope in the jam cleat will back off a little as it sets in the jam but the bungie takes up the small amount of slack. Ill motor or sail all day, and the rudder seems to stay as tight as when I originally set it. If I ground the rudder, the bungie stretches and handles everything just fine - Ive tested this plenty of times and have never replaced anything in the setup.

Nothing at all wrong with the pop up jam cleat of course.. but the bungie also seems to work just about perfectly.

Macgregor Rudder Float?

SW Fla Guy

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