Replacement for WC Skipper heads

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Moppet

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Aug 25, 2009
3
Maple Leaf Maple Leaf 42 Vancouver
Hi Peggy,

I have a 35 year old 42 foot sailboat with 2 Wlicox Crittenden Skipper heads of the same vintage. I have regularly overhauled both of them, but now understand Thetford who has taken over WC has discontinued this model and, after talking with them over the phone, has just about run out of parts for same.

The head in the forward cabin, even after lubricating it with silicone grease, vaseline or Sealube only runs smoothly for about a week and then is very stiff if not impossible to pump. This is even after using one of replacement parts kit about a year ago. I disconnected both inlet and outlet hoses to see if that was the problem, but no. It also now shoots water into the users face after moving the pump handle about an inch (I think this is a jammed flapper valve in the outlet area). I think this one is now completely shot, but maybe can be used as parts to help keep the other one working.

The second head in the aft cabin is still working reasonably well, but eventually as parts become more difficult to find, will also have to be replaced.

The boat is also used in charter for about 40 days per year, so I am looking for a fairly idiot-proof solution. I believe the head in the forward cabin gets much more use, so that probably accounts for its present condition.

I have read many of the postings in this forum, and agree that the best manual replacement is probably the PH II. I looked at one in our local West Marine, and it certainly looks better engineered than the other ones.

The holding tank is a Sealand 40 gallon tank and we carry about 200 gallons of fresh water. So I was thinking about replacing the one in the forward cabin with a feresh water electric unit. The Dometic 9800 series masterflush toilet looked like a good choice. The pipes must exit the back as there is no room under the floor.

What is your opinion as to the best strategy to follow? Is one manual and one electric a good idea? Should I continue to try to maintain one of the Skippers, or is 35 years too long for anything marine? And have you had any feedback on the Dometic 9800 toilet?

Thank you for doing all this great work in an area that is troubling for most of us. I have just registered as a member today. My next step is to order your book.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,879
- - LIttle Rock
No, Stu...it's not. Moppet...

Stu, a W-C Skipper and a W-C Headmate are NOT the same toilet. They're both manual toilets made by the same mfr, but that's all they have in common...they don't even work the same way. So a PH II would not be a straight swap for a Skipper.

Mopett...I agree that it's prob'ly time to replace the Skippers. But not with the Dometic/SeaLand MasterFlush (9800 series). That toilet is SeaLand's private label brand name for the Sanimarin, made in Romania by a French company, which is a lower quality knockoff of the Italian Tecma--which is a FINE toilet...the "gold standard" in high end all china "thrones" that just about every company in the industry has tried to clone. ). Vetus and at least one other company whose name escapes me at the moment are also private labeling th same toilet...for a lower price than SeaLand, of course. So IMO, there are several much better choices that will cost you considerablly less.

Also IMO BOTH the toilets on a boat that's in charter needs to be as idiot proof as possible, so I'd go with electric for both. And for your boat and the use it gets my choice would be the Raritan Elegance, pressurized flush water version with optional Smart Switch...check it out here: Raritan Elegance toilet

Most macerating electric toilets are operated by a simple push button. You press it in, it flushes. You release it, it stops. So the water useage is controlled by the operator and how long the button is held in. Average water use runs somewhere around 2 quarts, give or take. However, the Elegance generally uses less water than most other macerating electric toilets, especially if you spring for the Smart Switch computerized, programmable control. The Smart Switch has two basic flushes available: 1) the Normal flush, which has (3) vacuum bursts to evacuate the bowl, each lasting about 2 seconds each, with additional rinse water coming in after each burst. That is the average, although they can be programmed for other time durations, both longer and shorter. In the Normal flush, the toilet uses a little over a quart of water. 2) the Water Saver flush. the Water Saver flush only runs one vacuum burst, and uses about a pint of water. The Water Saver flush is used primarily for urine only and the Normal flush for solid waste.

In addition, the programmable Smart Switch has two other buttons on it. Add Water only, and Empty Only. These must be held in; they are not automatic. The Add Water button will only stay on for a maximum of 7 seconds, and the water flow will stop. This fills the bowl about 2/3 full, and no more. It is a safety feature that is buit-in, for kids playing with the button; they can't overflow the bowl. The Empty Only button must also be held in and it simply empties the bowl, without bringing in any water. This is useful if rough seas are expected and you don't want water sloshing out of the toilet and onto the decking.

You should be able to find it for somewhere under $700.
Give me another shout if you have more questions....you're also welcome to email if you'd like to discuss in more detail than is practical in a forum.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,914
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
My bad, I was wrong, read what i wanted to read

and neglected to note his Skipper, not headmate. Sorry, must be the second surgery and the happy pills. Thanks, Peggie.
 

Moppet

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Aug 25, 2009
3
Maple Leaf Maple Leaf 42 Vancouver
Hi Peggie,

My apologies for misspelling your name on my first post.

Thanks for your advice regarding not looking any further into the Dometic toilet and for your idea that going electric would make it simpler for the charterers. The Raritan Elegance looks like a good possibility, but my back wall is flat, so I don't actually need the sloped back. It would appear that you also like the Italian Tecma. Would their Silence model also be something to consider?

You also mentioned email for discussion, but I don't know where the link to the email is.

Thanks again for all your help.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,879
- - LIttle Rock
To send me an email...

Just click on my name above my photo.

Tecma is a wonderful toilet that can chew up and "digest" just about anything, even a tampon...so it would be a good choice for charterers. And yes, I'd go with the Silence. But I wouldn't rule out the Elegance solely on the basis of a sloped back...a little space behind it makes it easy to shine a flashlight into the whole "works" to see what might be wrong instead of taking it apart to find out.
 

Moppet

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Aug 25, 2009
3
Maple Leaf Maple Leaf 42 Vancouver
Many good points once again. Chewing up everything would certaiinly help from a risk management point of view. I also like the idea of being able to look into the back of the Elegance without having to unbolt it to check how it's doing. Can both of them be installed with the hoses coming out of the back rather than going down through the floor?
 
Sep 4, 2009
18
Oyster 55 (hull 19, built 1990) Redondo Beach
Tecma vs Raritan Elegance...

Until I started looking around this website I had never run into the Tecma, interesting unit...

If you had to choose between the Tecma and the Raritan Elegance (assuming both fit and the cost delta is not a big deal) which would you go with?

I am a long term liveaboard (19 years) and plan to continue to do so on the new boat for at least that long, both working and cruising.

Thanks for the thoughts

David
 

fuji35

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Sep 24, 2009
3
Fuji 35 ketch stevensville
Thanks for the feedback, I'll see which one fits best
Hi Peggy,

With regard to the exchange of heads, I have a 1975 Fuji 35 with a WC Head-Mate and was looking into the Raritan PHII as a replacement. However, the mounting for the WC is a raised, formed fiberglass and looks to be custom made to fit that unit. Looking at all of the photos of the PHII, I can't make out whether the mounts would line up or do I have to fabricate a new mount?
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,914
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Replacement for WC head mate

fuji35, please see the link in reply #2 above. I was incorrect about the head model replacement back then, but with your head mate, if you read the link it may answer some of your question.
 

fuji35

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Sep 24, 2009
3
Fuji 35 ketch stevensville
Thanks Stu,

I looked at the referenced links but am still not sure about the mount. the current mount literally looks like it was made for the WC; the top of the mount forms perfectly (in shape/diameter) to the footprint of the WC mount. It is raised about six inches above the head floor so the alignment of the holes or at least the available area has to fit onto the raised mount. Do you know if the actual mounting bolt pattern of the PHII mount would fit within the same shape/size of that of the WC? There would be no problem
drilling new holes.

Thanks again
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,914
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Huh?

IDo you know if the actual mounting bolt pattern of the PHII mount would fit within the same shape/size of that of the WC? There would be no problem drilling new holes.
fuji,

You and I both read Tom's post. What he said was: "The new pump fit great and covered all but one of the original mounting holes of the headmate. It was almost a direct replacement for the headmate."

All I can pass on to you is what he wrote. I didn't write it he did. I haven't installed one, he did. I am completely at a loss as to how I can answer your question, or any better than was posted by Tom. What's unclear about that sentence in relation to your new question?

Why not ask Tom directly on the C34 message board, or right here, too, since he posted that same topic here, too. ;)
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,879
- - LIttle Rock
Fuji...

Hi Peggy, With regard to the exchange of heads, I have a 1975 Fuji 35 with a WC Head-Mate and was looking into the Raritan PHII as a replacement. However, the mounting for the WC is a raised, formed fiberglass and looks to be custom made to fit that unit. Looking at all of the photos of the PHII, I can't make out whether the mounts would line up or do I have to fabricate a new mount?
If I can interrupt Stu long enough to answer your question... :D

You wouldn't have to fabricate anything...but you would have drill one or two new mounting bolt holes and fill one or two. If you go with the PH II or PHC "conversion" sbo.com PHII PHC LBA your Headmate bowl WILL fit.
 
Dec 17, 2006
3
2 34mkII Olympia
Headmate replacement

If I can interrupt Stu long enough to answer your question... :D

You wouldn't have to fabricate anything...but you would have drill one or two new mounting bolt holes and fill one or two. If you go with the PH II or PHC "conversion" sbo.com PHII PHC LBA your Headmate bowl WILL fit.
Fuji,

As Peggy posted above the PH11 PHC LBA will fit in the same area as the headmate. You will have to drill additional holes as the base is different, but the new PHC pump will cover 2 of the old headmates holes. Best $200.00 you will spend on the boat.
 
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