Navigation lights. Incandescent to LED

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Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
I have to get my navigation lights working. I only have 250 amp hours worth of batteries and a 35 amp alternator so I wanted to replace all the light bulbs with LEDs. I have never seen a bulb this small shaped like this. It has a base like a turn signal bulb on a car. The measurements are 1" long and the diameter of the base is 3/8". This buld is used in the bow lights also. I didn't check on the way up but I think it is in the steaming light also(that is the light half way up the mast on the front right?)
Is there a bulb I can retrofit into the fixture on the mast head? Or do I have to buy the whole light housing unit?
BTW there is plenty of room in the fixture for a bigger bulb.
 

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Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
Yep, you were right, I sh@ myself when I saw those prices. That would be $180 for the 4 bulbs I need.
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
The only reason to replace a steaming light with an LED is for the extended life. If you are running your engine (steaming) the engine is running. The first replacment for most sailboats may be the anchor light. You may have this running for 6-12 hrs. at an anchorage (maybe longer if you forget to turn it off).

You running lights need to be replaced if you do a lot of night time sailing, otherwise just live with what you have until they burn out.
 
Jun 22, 2004
41
Catalina 470 Marina del Rey
Scott, by changing ours our anchor light went from a 2 amp draw to a .2 amp draw. Our running lights went from 5 amps to 1 amp. The bulbs are costly, but man do you save juice.
 
Dec 2, 2003
1,637
Hunter 376 Warsash, England --
Hermit,
Your bulbs do not look like any nav light bulbs I have ever seen. They look as if they are low wattage panel lights as used in instrument panels and on older cars. Is it possible that a previous owner has already changed your bulbs for these small wattage ones? If so it would seem unlikely that your fittings would comply in any way with the COLREGS - and, not having sufficient range to be seen by a ship in time for it to take avoiding action, they would be dangerous too. Further, in an insurance case, your company might take some convincing that you were properly lit.

It is generally accepted that to have a visible range of 2 miles for vessels less than 12 metres LOA a 10 watt incandescent bulb is needed and for 3 miles for vessels from 12 to 20 metres LOA a 24 watt bulb is the norm.

Also these specially made nav light bulbs normally have a long vertical filament which enables the lamp to have the sharp cut off at each end of the required arc sector. Your bulbs appear to have neither.

These features are why it is so difficult for the LED types to accurately match the incandescents and also to comply with the specification requirements.

I too have been through the agony of worrying about power consumption and battery life so I took a pragmatic look at how often I sail at night and for how long without the engine running. In truth the answer was very rarely; so I just fitted a 10 watt tricolor masthead light and stopped worrying.
 
Nov 26, 2006
381
Hunter 31 1987 Fly Creek Marina Fairhope,AL.
Hermit,
Donalex is right i think, that someone at some time has replaced the base/socket with what you have now and is not legal. LED's vary in price but here is what i placed in mine and so far have zero problems.

I would seriosly consider replacing the base and then the LED bulb even if you have to do it over time .

The results are very rewarding.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/12V-...Gear?hash=item20a8a69ddd&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,108
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Come on guys...I think these are the "EYE" lights at the bow of a Catalina 30 .. recessed into the hull just below the hull/deck joint.. That is a bulb the size of a taillight bulb from a car.. Plenty legal.. but it is laying horizontal and shielded so that it qualifies.. but I don't thiink an LED bulb will be found to replace the incandescent.. Hermit, ya prolly going to have to shift to something like a Series 25 from Aqua Signal (which will require thinking about teh mountings) if you ultimately want to go LED.. I agree with Steve,.. Anchor light and cabin lights first to LED then nav lights.. since ya normally are at anchor more often than sailing at night
 
Mar 8, 2009
530
Catalina 22 Kemah,Texas
Blow the budget!!!!

I say back your ears and buy a LED masthead tricolor/anchor light. I say that because it will be coast guard certified and you really need the nav lights up top for a big ship to see you from a distance especially on the bigger ponds. JMHO
the light will be comparable to the price of a quality extra battery to extend run time. I replaced the bow light on my 22 to led and it is 5 times brighter. I am still doing the tri on the mast for the bays and gulf.

I have 200 amp hours on my 22 with plans for more.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,645
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
My mast climber guy - believe me its not me - suggested replacing the whole anchor light unit it an LED one instead of replacing the bulb with an LED bulb. I can understand that may be desirable but its not going to happen until I take the mast down. Anyone have an opinion on why that would be so much better - new unit vs. new bulb?
 
Jan 27, 2008
3,086
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
Cash for Clunker Lights

Why don't we all use the power of our BOAT/US memberships and get them to lobby as part of the stimulus so we can trade in our old light bulbs and get LED lights. Then we wouldn't have to waste fuel running our engines to charge our batteries. Does SBO have a lobbying department?
 
Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
I ordered single LED and 4LED clusters lights for the steaming and the bow lights. I ordered a 360 degree 12 LED for the mast head. If the single LEDs can be seen at 2 NM I will use those, if not I will try the 4 LED clustsers.
As far as the bases are concerned. Why are they illegal? Do I need to silicone these bulbs in to make them safe. They will probably out last the boat so if I do have to get in there and mess with some silicone, it should be a rare occurance. I also bought new base plugs with a pig tail hanging off. So I can seal them together in my shop, and solder and seal the wires on the boat if needed.
Do I need to seal them with sealant of some type?

Jibes- I have applied for the job of sailboat lobbyist with SBO. They haven't called back yet!

Donalex-you are right about these lights. They are the kind in the dash of an old car. Also the one I took a picture of is only 5 watts. I can't believe they had a 5 watt mast head light.

Txtowman-the place I ordered the led's didn't have the tricolor. That is a good idea though.
 
Oct 2, 2006
1,517
Jboat J24 commack
Hermit

What would happen if you built and exercise machine without UL electric parts :) and somebody got hurt :(
 

Bob S

.
Sep 27, 2007
1,805
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
Also, try these to adapt the interior lights. You can buy a regular G4 led and use this base.

http://www.fourwinds-ii.com/v2/?c=ledinterior&i=004

did mine all last year. I have a 240ah house (did a lot of work with advice from Stu) it's been plenty of power for a weekend on the hook. I start the fridge with a solid block of ice for a half day before I turn it on. LED's are great for an energy budget.
 

kenn

.
Apr 18, 2009
1,271
CL Sandpiper 565 Toronto
I've been looking a bit into what's required to convert existing nav lights to LED. Being an electronics geek, I'm keen to make my own from bulk LEDs and a resistor.

However, as Donalex points out, there will be US Coast Guard specs to consider. Just changing the incandescent bulb to a LED "bulb" will violate the certification of a light, unless the USCG has specifically stated that such and such a bulb in a certain fixture is still compliant.

Something to consider. As we just saw in the Dinius trial, in the event of an accident, some jurisdictions will latch onto any technical violation they can dig up.

(BTW, I'm pleased with the Dinius verdict. The system worked)
 
Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
Am I not allowed to keep the small 9mm bayonet type LED lights? I just ordered 7 lights and 5 new bayonet sockets. The total was $35 with shipping.
What is the problem with the lights?
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,711
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
It's not

Scott,

The question is not necessarily one of legality. The USCG will certainly NOT be checking your bulbs only checking to see that you use them.

The question of matter comes into play with our US legal system. If you are involved in a nigh time accident it will likely become your job, and your expense, to prove in court that your fixture met the color, beam, angle sectors and distance standards. Any good maritime lawyer could attempt to make his entire case based on your use of non-certified LED lights especially when there are now plenty of "certified" options.

I was personally involved with a night time boating death (best friends father was killed). The forensics testimony, on just the nav lighting, was two full days of testimony. Both boats had legal certified bulbs and it still went on for two days. Imagine if you had non-certified bulbs..

It's not the USCG you need to worry about it's the Jim Sokolove's of the world.. __________________

Here are the standards nav lights need to meet to get certified:

From 33 CFR 84:

Colors

� 84.13 Color specification of lights
(a) The chromaticity of all navigation lights shall conform to the following standards, which lie within the boundaries of the area of the diagram specified for each color by the International Commission on Illumination (CIE), in the "Colors of Light Signals", which is incorporated by reference. It is Publication CIE No. 2.2. (TC-1.6), 1975, and is available from the Illumination Engineering Society, 345 East 47th Street, New York, NY 10017. It is also available for inspection at the Office of the Federal Register, Room 8401, 1100 L Street N.W., Washington, D.C. 20408. This incorporation by reference was approved by the Director of the Federal Register.
(b) The boundaries of the area for each color are given by indicating the corner coordinates, which are as follows:
(1) White:
x 0.525 0.525 0.452 0.310 0.310 0.443
y 0.382 0.440 0.440 0.348 0.283 0.382
(2) Green:
x 0.028 0.009 0.300 0.203
y 0.385 0.723 0.511 0.356
(3) Red:
x 0.680 0.660 0.735 0.721
y 0.320 0.320 0.265 0.259
(4) Yellow:
x 0.612 0.618 0.575 0.575
y 0.382 0.382 0.425 0.406

Intensity

� 84.15 Intensity of lights
(a) The minimum luminous intensity of lights shall be calculated by using the formula:
l = 3.43 x 106 x T x D2 x K-D
where:
I is luminous intensity in candelas under service conditions, T is threshold factor 2 x 10-7 lux, D is range of visibility (luminous range) of the light in nautical miles, K is atmospheric transmissivity. For prescribed lights the value of K shall be 0.8, corresponding to a meteorological visibility of approximately 13 nautical miles.
(b) A selection of figures derived from the formula is given in Table 84.15(b).
Table 84.15(b)
Range of visibility (luminous Minimum
range) of light in nautical luminous intensity of light
miles in candelas tor K = 0.8
D I
1 0.9
2 4.3
3 12
4 27
5 52
6 94

Horizontal Sectors

� 84.17 Horizontal sectors
(a)
(1) In the forward direction, sidelights as fitted on the vessel shall show the minimum required intensities. The intensities shall decrease to reach practical cut-off between 1 and 3 degrees outside the prescribed sectors.
(2) For sternlights and masthead lights and at 22.5 degrees abaft the beam for sidelights, the minimum required intensities shall be maintained over the arc of the horizon up to 5 degrees within the limits of the sectors prescribed in Rule 21. From 5 degrees within the prescribed sectors the intensity may decrease by 50 percent up to the prescribed limits; it shall decrease steadily to reach practical cutoff at not more than 5 degrees outside the prescribed sectors. (b) All-round lights shall be so located as not to be obscured by masts, topmasts or structures within angular sectors of more than 6 degrees, except anchor lights prescribed in Rule 30, which need not be placed at an impracticable height above the hull, and the all-round white light described in Rule 23(d), which may not be obscured at all. (c) If it is impracticable to comply with paragraph (b) of this section by exhibiting only one all-round light, two all-round lights shall be used suitably positioned or screened to appear, as far as practicable, as one light at a minimum distance of one nautical mile.

NOTE to paragraph (c): Two unscreened all-round lights that are 1.28 meters appart or less will appear as one light to the naked eye at a distance of one nautical mile.


Vertical Sectors

� 84.19 Vertical sectors
(a) The vertical sectors of electric lights as fitted, with the exception of lights on sailing vessels underway and on unmanned barges, shall ensure that:
(1) At least the required minimum intensity is maintained at all angles from 5 degrees above to 5 degrees below the horizontal;
(2) At least 60 percent of the required minimum intensity is maintained from 7.5 degrees above to 7.5 degrees below the horizontal.
(b) In the case of sailing vessels underway the vertical sectors of electric lights as fitted shall ensure that:
(1) At least the required minimum intensity is maintained at all angles from 5 degrees above to 5 degrees below the horizontal;
(2) At least 50 percent of the required minimum intensity is maintained from 25 degrees above to 25 degrees below the horizontal.
(c) In the case of unmanned barges the minimum required intensity of electric lights as fitted shall be maintained on the horizontal.
(d) In the case of lights other than electric lights these specifications shall be met as closely as possible.


If you feel you can go up against Jim Sokolove or his buddies, who would likely be prancing about a courtroom with the above standards for nav lights, or feel this would never happen to you than by all means use non certified bulbs.

Again, it is NOT the USCG who will care but the lawyers will if and when you are involved in a nigh time accident. It is NOT the USCG you'll need to worry about it is the ambulance chasers who are looking for a case, any case, to show why their drunk defendant deserves to get off scott free. As far as I know there has not been a case yet with non-cert LED's but with the increasing popularity it probably won't be long before we hear of one.

If you have read the above CFR for nav lights and believe you can meet these horizontal, vertical, color spectrum and intensity parameters than you're good to go...


Let's run this scenario: (sort of similar to my friend Kim's fathers death just without LED's)

You are at sailing back home with the family after a great day on the water and it's now dark. You switch on your new non certified, blueish colored LED stern light that you saved big money on by purchasing it from an eBay store. Joe six pack in his 32 foot Baja with 550 H.P. has been drinking all day and is blasting home when he plows into your boat and kills your dad. Fast forward about two years to the trial where the lawyer for the defendant is blaming you, and convincing the jury that because you were a cheap skate, you are the reason your father is dead because his drunk defendant could not see your stern light and though perhaps it was a star...

A stretch? Maybe not. I sat through two days of this type of testimony during the trial of the defendant who killed my friends father. It was two days of nav light testimony only these were certified nav lights, and yes that was brought up, and the bulbs were examined by a forensics expert to determine if the bulb was on at time of impact. The case would have been made much easier if Kim's dad had simply installed aftermarket LED's as it would have given the lawyers food for fodder. Forensics proved the nav lights were on at the time of the accident..
 
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