Drop off toilet waste
- Thread starter SanderO
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have the state take care of the sh!tboxes!!!!!!!!!!!
The costs would be astronomical. Why not pay for pumpout boats WHERE NEEDED instead of creating a HUGE effort to solve an extremely small problem.
How much would it cost to retrofit a few MILLION boats? Of course we could do that with stimulus dollars. That way nobody has to pay for it.
Storing 25 gallons of waste takes up the same space no matter if it's in 2 large tanks or 4 smaller tanks. 25 gallons is 25 gallons. 42 pounds is not light. Will you have to declare an emergency if you drop this sh!tbox overboard?
This is a totally ridiculous idea sandy, thanks for the laugh
The costs would be astronomical. Why not pay for pumpout boats WHERE NEEDED instead of creating a HUGE effort to solve an extremely small problem.
How much would it cost to retrofit a few MILLION boats? Of course we could do that with stimulus dollars. That way nobody has to pay for it.
Storing 25 gallons of waste takes up the same space no matter if it's in 2 large tanks or 4 smaller tanks. 25 gallons is 25 gallons. 42 pounds is not light. Will you have to declare an emergency if you drop this sh!tbox overboard?
This is a totally ridiculous idea sandy, thanks for the laugh
Hey sandy
you've been out of work now for how long now? 6 months? Would you take that job as tank Sh!t sucker? Pays the new phenominal minimum wage, and you'll get health care too... You'll need it.
you've been out of work now for how long now? 6 months? Would you take that job as tank Sh!t sucker? Pays the new phenominal minimum wage, and you'll get health care too... You'll need it.
Now. now...let's not be too hard on Sandy
In crisis there is opportunity...and for most people, being unemployed for 6 months would be considered a crisis. Sandy's just trying to create an opportunity. It's also true that jobs nobody wants can be VERY profitable 'cuz you have little competition. Unfortunately though, Sandy hasn't figured out yet that for such an opportunity to be profitable, you have to do the undesirable job yourself.
This is off topic, but I am self employed as an architect. I have worked for other architects over the years so I am not unemployed technically.
I started this discussion because I thought that a system like refilling propane tanks - but in reverse - might be another approach to waste management.
I think vessels with holding tanks can carry on, but I thought, as mentioned above, this concept would be somewhere between a porta-potty and holding tank system.
Of course I haven't worked out details because I was just tossing out the idea for discussion.
I don't know the cost of a typical holding tank installation, but this concept might be significantly less costly and make compliance easier for many smaller boats which have heads.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know how these issues are handled in the EU, Oz etc.?
I started this discussion because I thought that a system like refilling propane tanks - but in reverse - might be another approach to waste management.
I think vessels with holding tanks can carry on, but I thought, as mentioned above, this concept would be somewhere between a porta-potty and holding tank system.
Of course I haven't worked out details because I was just tossing out the idea for discussion.
I don't know the cost of a typical holding tank installation, but this concept might be significantly less costly and make compliance easier for many smaller boats which have heads.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know how these issues are handled in the EU, Oz etc.?
Waste
CNG (exchange) and propane tanks (refill) usually last for several months, so the inconvenience of having to pull and replace the tank is less of an issue than with a holding tank that might hold only a few flushes before pulling. On our boat that would be about daily; PITA for sure.
I'm sure the idea could be made to work if enough energy were placed on it, but lots of issues to deal with. The end result cries for government involvement and that, most know, leads to bigger and more intrusive regulation. Not a good situation, IMHO. Government does not know how to operate an efficient and/or profitable business. Common sense says to drop the idea and move on to one that makes sense, one that can stand a chance at prospering.
Terry Cox
CNG (exchange) and propane tanks (refill) usually last for several months, so the inconvenience of having to pull and replace the tank is less of an issue than with a holding tank that might hold only a few flushes before pulling. On our boat that would be about daily; PITA for sure.
I'm sure the idea could be made to work if enough energy were placed on it, but lots of issues to deal with. The end result cries for government involvement and that, most know, leads to bigger and more intrusive regulation. Not a good situation, IMHO. Government does not know how to operate an efficient and/or profitable business. Common sense says to drop the idea and move on to one that makes sense, one that can stand a chance at prospering.
Terry Cox
Sandy, they're handled the same way in OZ and EU as they are here
Except that holding tanks aren't as universally required in either place as they are here. And the laws vary a bit from ours. For instance, in OZ you can dump a tank as close as 1 mile offshore if it's macerated. All of Turkey's coastal waters are "no discharge" but because there are -0- pumpouts in Turkey you have to go out into the Med far enough to be outside Turkish waters and dump your tank when it gets full. The Turks believe in "sharing the wealth" with all their neighbors.
What I think you're overlooking is the difference in the number of flushes from various toilets. Portapotties use so little flush water that 5-6 gallon portapotty--including those that can be permanently installed and fitted for pump out--can hold 50-60 flushes, which is enough to last a two people continuously aboard at least 5 days. Otoh, the average flush volume from the typical manual or electric marine toilet is about 1/2" gallon...which means at least a 25 gallon tank is needed to hold the same number of flushes.
As for the cost..2-3 gal portable portapotties are $100 or less...an extra tank prob'ly around $50. 5-6 gal. "MSD" models are <$150...add a few feet of hose and fittings for a total of +/- $200 if you do the work yourself. A typical holding tank installation would run <$500 for the tank, hose and fittings if you do the work yourself...whch is actually not that challenging because holding tanks (or treatment devices) have been required since 1980, so you'd most likely be replacing instead of starting from scratch.
So what it comes down to is, there's really very little need for a "swap out" service...'cuz a 5 gal tank connected to the typical marine toilet would barely last two people a day--not even that long if they have even one more person aboard...so nobody would be willing to put up with the hassle of swapping out tanks that often even if they had several on hand. And a 5 gallon portapotty holds enough flushes to last till the boat has to come in for ice or fuel (beer?) anyway...and can be pumped out then. If you have only a 2-3 gal. portapotty, a spare tank for it is relatively inexpensive and easy to swap out if you want to stay out long enough to need it.
Except that holding tanks aren't as universally required in either place as they are here. And the laws vary a bit from ours. For instance, in OZ you can dump a tank as close as 1 mile offshore if it's macerated. All of Turkey's coastal waters are "no discharge" but because there are -0- pumpouts in Turkey you have to go out into the Med far enough to be outside Turkish waters and dump your tank when it gets full. The Turks believe in "sharing the wealth" with all their neighbors.
What I think you're overlooking is the difference in the number of flushes from various toilets. Portapotties use so little flush water that 5-6 gallon portapotty--including those that can be permanently installed and fitted for pump out--can hold 50-60 flushes, which is enough to last a two people continuously aboard at least 5 days. Otoh, the average flush volume from the typical manual or electric marine toilet is about 1/2" gallon...which means at least a 25 gallon tank is needed to hold the same number of flushes.
As for the cost..2-3 gal portable portapotties are $100 or less...an extra tank prob'ly around $50. 5-6 gal. "MSD" models are <$150...add a few feet of hose and fittings for a total of +/- $200 if you do the work yourself. A typical holding tank installation would run <$500 for the tank, hose and fittings if you do the work yourself...whch is actually not that challenging because holding tanks (or treatment devices) have been required since 1980, so you'd most likely be replacing instead of starting from scratch.
So what it comes down to is, there's really very little need for a "swap out" service...'cuz a 5 gal tank connected to the typical marine toilet would barely last two people a day--not even that long if they have even one more person aboard...so nobody would be willing to put up with the hassle of swapping out tanks that often even if they had several on hand. And a 5 gallon portapotty holds enough flushes to last till the boat has to come in for ice or fuel (beer?) anyway...and can be pumped out then. If you have only a 2-3 gal. portapotty, a spare tank for it is relatively inexpensive and easy to swap out if you want to stay out long enough to need it.
Just an attempt at humor. Not very skillful, I see.
I am desirous of your thoughts on the urinal installation thread I started today, though: please visit.
I am desirous of your thoughts on the urinal installation thread I started today, though: please visit.
Spoken like a true architect: "It'll be somebody else's problem after I'm done with my "design."
What Peggie is saying is
simply: Do The Math.
It works with this sh-*t just the same as it does for electrical systems.
simply: Do The Math.
It works with this sh-*t just the same as it does for electrical systems.
Why disparage an entire profession because I proposed something new? The concept may not be feasible in the end, but I was opening the thread to explore a possible new solution to what is a mess problem in my opinion.
I noted that I had no idea what the pump out people do with the poop, but apparently they dump in the state run sanitation system.
But sure there nutty architects, a doctors and lawyers, and plumbers and teachers and you name it, including sailors. I am a bit surprized at the snark this thread generated.
Go figure.
I noted that I had no idea what the pump out people do with the poop, but apparently they dump in the state run sanitation system.
But sure there nutty architects, a doctors and lawyers, and plumbers and teachers and you name it, including sailors. I am a bit surprized at the snark this thread generated.
Go figure.
Fwiw, Sandy...
Sewage treatment plants are not STATE owned and operated, but by the cities and/or counties they serve...and in some cases even operated by private contractors.
It's usually a good idea to learn how things currently work--various options, types of equipment used and how it all works, what's good about it, what actually needs "fixing," any regulations, common issues etc--before proposing new ways to do it.
Sewage treatment plants are not STATE owned and operated, but by the cities and/or counties they serve...and in some cases even operated by private contractors.
It's usually a good idea to learn how things currently work--various options, types of equipment used and how it all works, what's good about it, what actually needs "fixing," any regulations, common issues etc--before proposing new ways to do it.
There are nutty engineez too and I are one! How do you make a millionaire? Give an architect two million! Bada bing...
Thin skinned? Naw, just asking you to think through an idea first and the ramifications, and, when first proposed as you did, step BACK, sir, and let the ideas "float" instead of "defending" yourself every step of the way (or every other post).
I'm perfectly happy with our holding tank, overboard flush for when out 3 miles and the pump out station at our marina (free). Without the pump out station? Wouldn't be so happy.
Why do I like what we have? I don't have to TOUCH anything.
Thin skinned? Naw, just asking you to think through an idea first and the ramifications, and, when first proposed as you did, step BACK, sir, and let the ideas "float" instead of "defending" yourself every step of the way (or every other post).
I'm perfectly happy with our holding tank, overboard flush for when out 3 miles and the pump out station at our marina (free). Without the pump out station? Wouldn't be so happy.
Why do I like what we have? I don't have to TOUCH anything.
Stu said, "Thin skinned? Naw, just asking you to think through an idea first and the ramifications, and, when first proposed as you did, step BACK, sir, and let the ideas "float" instead of "defending" yourself every step of the way (or every other post)."
That's what did it for me to Stu!
Jack
PS...then the part about letting the government do it. We see what GREAT jobs they are doing!
That's what did it for me to Stu!
Jack
PS...then the part about letting the government do it. We see what GREAT jobs they are doing!
Where's the love?
Sure it is a ridiculous idea proposed (and defended repeatedly) by someone who doesn't understand how the present system works. Call it a "brainfart" if you wish but this is a fellow sailor we are talking to so try a little tenderness.
I can't help to think this idea has merit and if it was discussed in a more genteel forumn, say for instance Sailing Anarchy it would have been more readily accepted by the regulars over there.
Sure it is a ridiculous idea proposed (and defended repeatedly) by someone who doesn't understand how the present system works. Call it a "brainfart" if you wish but this is a fellow sailor we are talking to so try a little tenderness.
I can't help to think this idea has merit and if it was discussed in a more genteel forumn, say for instance Sailing Anarchy it would have been more readily accepted by the regulars over there.
Pump out Boats
I think the states and or counties should have more pump out boats available to help keep our waters cleaner.
When I lived in Long Island,NY a friend who worked for Riverhead town told me that were getting a new pump out boat with a grant from I think the state or Feds,I saw it just recently while kayaking and I am pretty sure they come to your boat free,just like Block Island and many other Harbors,why can't this be done all over to make it easy for all boaters to pump out and keep our waters cleaner ???????.
Nick
I think the states and or counties should have more pump out boats available to help keep our waters cleaner.
When I lived in Long Island,NY a friend who worked for Riverhead town told me that were getting a new pump out boat with a grant from I think the state or Feds,I saw it just recently while kayaking and I am pretty sure they come to your boat free,just like Block Island and many other Harbors,why can't this be done all over to make it easy for all boaters to pump out and keep our waters cleaner ???????.
Nick
The states/counties aren't the owners, Nick...
It's marinas, privately owned and those owned by municipalities, and private companies/individuals who get grant money to install a dockside pumpout or buy and outfit a pumpout boat. And the grant ONLY pays up to a certain percentage of the purchase and installation price...maintenance--which can be VERY expensive--is up to the marina owner or the pumpout boat owner/operator. Pumpout boats have to get permits, and have a place to empty the pumpout boat's tank...and marinas have to put it somewhere too. Sewer isn't available everywhere, which means installing an inground tank and contracting with a pumper truck (price THAT sometime!).
So if more pumpout facilities are needed in your waters, that's a business opportunity...you could have a whole fleet of pumpout boats. So go for it!
However, you'd go broke charging only the $5 that you'd limited to if you use grant money to pay for it all...so you'd have to find some financing elsewhere.
It's marinas, privately owned and those owned by municipalities, and private companies/individuals who get grant money to install a dockside pumpout or buy and outfit a pumpout boat. And the grant ONLY pays up to a certain percentage of the purchase and installation price...maintenance--which can be VERY expensive--is up to the marina owner or the pumpout boat owner/operator. Pumpout boats have to get permits, and have a place to empty the pumpout boat's tank...and marinas have to put it somewhere too. Sewer isn't available everywhere, which means installing an inground tank and contracting with a pumper truck (price THAT sometime!).
So if more pumpout facilities are needed in your waters, that's a business opportunity...you could have a whole fleet of pumpout boats. So go for it!
However, you'd go broke charging only the $5 that you'd limited to if you use grant money to pay for it all...so you'd have to find some financing elsewhere.
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