Help! Tired of trying to fix my head odor problem

[Requip]

Hi

I've spent a couple of hours trying to apply what I have read on this forum to repair my head odor problem.

I started with the head by taking it apart and cleaning it. I then cleaned the holding tank and flushed all the lines with chemical treatment and fresh water via a garden hose whilst I pumped out the holding take simultaniously.

The smell was still present but not as heavy. I have read some of the posts and am now trying to convert my head intake salt water system to a fresh water system. (unfortunately, I have not been able to find via the search button on this forum, Peggy's instructions on how to do this) What does "HM" stand for?

Anyway, I purchased a Y valve where turning one way connects the sink(fresh water) to the head intake hose and the other side of the Y valve to the saltwater intake hose. Switching between the two allows the option of sea water from the seacock or fresh water via the sink as discussed by Peggy and others.

My problem is that the fresh water from the sink now has to travel down a 1" hose diameter that then connects to a 3/4" Y Valve which diverts the fresh water to the toilet which is not exactly down hill all the way...so in order to eliminate the water used to wash my hands in the toilet sink, I must flush the toilet!

Peggy, you suggest a simple "T" which may be the best answer but that would eliminate the option of using salt water when I am away from fresh water facilities to refill the fresh water tank.

Any other ideas? I've tried the search on this forum but have not been sucessful in finding the HM resource library or info that takes me to the fresh water intake conversion page. Can anyone provide the link?

Thanks
Alan

 

[Requip]

I believe I found the answers to my questions on a previous post.

Looks like I will have to get rid of the Y valve and just T the sink drain hose to the head intake hose. I will permanently close the salt water intake seacock.

I have one question: How can I be sure that salt water will now pump through the sink's seacock if I am heeled over on the opposite side of the head? The old saltwater intake seacock is about a foot lower and I presume is at a point that would still be underwater evern when heeled over. Anyone have this challenge on a sailboat?

Thanks
Alan

 

[Maine Sail]

The stink

Alan,

The remaining stink is probably from the stench permeating the hoses. This unfortunately can not be cleaned out. You'll need to replace the plumbing hoses in order to eliminate the rest of the head odor.

 

[Ken Palmer]

I don't have Peggy's book here at home, but I believe she says that you can detect odor coming from a hose by taking a clean rag, wet it, ring it out, and wrap it around the discharge hose from the toilet to the tank. Any odor will be picked up by the rag. Take it off after a while a sniff it. If it smells bad, change the hose.

Hope I got that right Peggy.

 

[Blitz]

Time to tack?

I have one question: How can I be sure that salt water will now pump through the sink's seacock if I am heeled over on the opposite side of the head? The old saltwater intake seacock is about a foot lower and I presume is at a point that would still be underwater evern when heeled over. Anyone have this challenge on a sailboat?

Thanks
Alan

My seacoks are all in line at the same depth below the water line for the shower drain, sink drain, and toilet intake so I don't have much problem with them being all underwater - but it can be a problem if extremely heeled over it might suck some air. Normally just dump some wind to straighten the boat some or going on a different tack its the quick solution. Not really worth moving the seacock for the sink drain.

 

[Scott B]

I don't have Peggy's book here at home, but I believe she says that you can detect odor coming from a hose by taking a clean rag, wet it, ring it out, and wrap it around the discharge hose from the toilet to the tank. Any odor will be picked up by the rag. Take it off after a while a sniff it. If it smells bad, change the hose.

Hope I got that right Peggy.

Almost. You have to use very hot water.

 

[fifedog]

Fresh water and white vinegar (10 to 1) did the job on our boat. Plus, got a turkey baster and siphoned that little bit of bilge water that the pump couldn't reach.
Odor gone.
Keep them tips a-comin'. Thanks.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

A very important question:

Y'all are doin' fine...I don't have a thing to add except a question:

Where is the odor? Just in the head? Only the first few flushes after the boat has sat? Or all the time? All over the boat? Only out the tank vent when you flush? 'Cuz rerouting the head intake hose won't cure but one of those problems.

 

[Requip]

Peggy

The odor eminates directly from the head compartment. The rest of the interior of the boat if fresh. I have not been able to detect any noticable odor from the lazerette where the holding tank is located.

Interestingly, when I get close to the actual toilette I get no noticable odor. It seems to be a general odor in the head compartment where the intake and outtake hoses are located including the macerater (all under the sink) and after the process of elimination can only assume that the odor is coming from the intake side of the system. If that does not work, I have to replace all the hoses even though the boat is only 4 years old.

 

[Vic Willman]

Odor

If the very best sanitation hoses weren't originally used, the cheap hoses have been known, on some occasions, to permeate in as little as 3 months. That they lasted for four years, may actually be a bonus!

Now that Aussie Globe Odor-free hose isn't being sold in the U.S. any longer, you'd be best going with Trident #102 (white with green stripe).

 

[Seattle Scott]

Alan, you asked; "I have one question: How can I be sure that salt water will now pump through the sink's seacock "
It won't or that is not the goal. The sink's seacock is a drain. Keep your intial plan of the y-valve but leave the saltwater intake to the head not hooked to the Y-valve. The inlet to the Y valve is the sink drain and the outlets are either to the head or overboard. Maybe keep a length of hose connected to the head intake valve/thru hull so you can hook up salt water intake if needed because ran freshwater dry.

All that being said, we are in the same waters. Sure, I will get some stink on the first few flushes after saltwater has been sitting in the intake line for a week between uses. But that goes away . when I had a stink that would not quit, I replaced the hose between the tank / antisyphon loop / maserator and thru hull, mabe 8-10 feet , stink went away. I did not replace the hose from the head to tank because only a 2-3 foot run and I always made sure to pump/flush sufficiently so all waste didn't sit in hoses short of tank ( Peggie's advise) When I had a block last week, i took the hose off between head and tank and the insides were coated with a 1/4 inch layer of hard crud that had broken loose and caused the block. New hose solved that.

Do the hose replacement first.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I don't think your toilet is the culprit.

And I don't think that rerouting your head intake line will solve the problem.

The odor eminates directly from the head compartment.
Interestingly, when I get close to the actual toilette I get no noticable odor. It seems to be a general odor in the head compartment where the intake and outtake hoses are located including the macerater (all under the sink) and after the process of elimination can only assume that the odor is coming from the intake side of the system.

Head intake odor always emanates from the toilet bowl...and rarely occurs except with the first flush immediately after the boat has sat, allowing sea water to sit and stagnate in the system. But that's not what you say is happening...so it doesn't appear we've completed the process of elimination yet.

When was the last time--if ever--the shower sump was cleaned? Wet dirty sumps and bilges are primordial soups that can make a whole boat, or an enclosed area, smell like swamp or even a sewer, especially in hot weather.

Are there any vented loops in the toilet intake or discharge?

Have you tested the hoses under the sink for odor permeation?

 

[StormFront]

A fresh solution that worked for me

[Hi I have a Hunter 356 - it sits for weeks at a time - I know - and the dead critters in the salt water can create a powerful order. I tried all kinds of solutions none of which really worked. I finally concluded that what I needed was a freshwater system so I installed a 9 gallon fresh water tank in my stern locker and hook it up to the saltwater system between the intake valve and head. When we go out I close the fresh water system and open the saltwater system. When I get back I close the saltwater system and flush with fresh water. This has worked very well. Of course if you are in fresh water - Oh well. Cost was about $200. QUOTE=Requip;]
I've spent a couple of hours trying to apply what I have read on this forum to repair my head odor problem.

I started with the head by taking it apart and cleaning it. I then cleaned the holding tank and flushed all the lines with chemical treatment and fresh water via a garden hose whilst I pumped out the holding take simultaniously.

The smell was still present but not as heavy. I have read some of the posts and am now trying to convert my head intake salt water system to a fresh water system. (unfortunately, I have not been able to find via the search button on this forum, Peggy's instructions on how to do this) What does "HM" stand for?

Anyway, I purchased a Y valve where turning one way connects the sink(fresh water) to the head intake hose and the other side of the Y valve to the saltwater intake hose. Switching between the two allows the option of sea water from the seacock or fresh water via the sink as discussed by Peggy and others.

My problem is that the fresh water from the sink now has to travel down a 1" hose diameter that then connects to a 3/4" Y Valve which diverts the fresh water to the toilet which is not exactly down hill all the way...so in order to eliminate the water used to wash my hands in the toilet sink, I must flush the toilet!

Peggy, you suggest a simple "T" which may be the best answer but that would eliminate the option of using salt water when I am away from fresh water facilities to refill the fresh water tank.

Any other ideas? I've tried the search on this forum but have not been sucessful in finding the HM resource library or info that takes me to the fresh water intake conversion page. Can anyone provide the link?

Thanks
Alan[/QUOTE]

 

[StormFront]

A fresh solution that worked for me

[Hi I have a Hunter 356 - it sits for weeks at a time - I know - and the dead critters in the salt water can create a powerful order. I tried all kinds of solutions none of which really worked. I finally concluded that what I needed was a freshwater system so I installed a 9 gallon fresh water tank in my stern locker and hook it up to the saltwater system between the intake valve and head. When we go out I close the fresh water system and open the saltwater system. When I get back I close the saltwater system and flush with fresh water. This has worked very well. Of course if you are in fresh water - Oh well. Cost was about $200. QUOTE=Requip;]
I've spent a couple of hours trying to apply what I have read on this forum to repair my head odor problem.

I started with the head by taking it apart and cleaning it. I then cleaned the holding tank and flushed all the lines with chemical treatment and fresh water via a garden hose whilst I pumped out the holding take simultaniously.

The smell was still present but not as heavy. I have read some of the posts and am now trying to convert my head intake salt water system to a fresh water system. (unfortunately, I have not been able to find via the search button on this forum, Peggy's instructions on how to do this) What does "HM" stand for?

Anyway, I purchased a Y valve where turning one way connects the sink(fresh water) to the head intake hose and the other side of the Y valve to the saltwater intake hose. Switching between the two allows the option of sea water from the seacock or fresh water via the sink as discussed by Peggy and others.

My problem is that the fresh water from the sink now has to travel down a 1" hose diameter that then connects to a 3/4" Y Valve which diverts the fresh water to the toilet which is not exactly down hill all the way...so in order to eliminate the water used to wash my hands in the toilet sink, I must flush the toilet!

Peggy, you suggest a simple "T" which may be the best answer but that would eliminate the option of using salt water when I am away from fresh water facilities to refill the fresh water tank.

Any other ideas? I've tried the search on this forum but have not been sucessful in finding the HM resource library or info that takes me to the fresh water intake conversion page. Can anyone provide the link?

Thanks
Alan[/QUOTE]

 

[chuckwayne]

Re: A fresh solution that worked for me

Stormfront,
we did a similar change on our 356, with one major difference-put the y valve on the sink drain, so sink drain goes either to the normal outlet seacock(or shower sump) or to a hose that is tee'd into the head intake. When the y valve sends the sink drain to the normal outlet, it drains normally. when you change the valve to send the drain water to the head, and the head seacock is closed, the head draws from the sink. putting the sink y in the normal drain position and opening the head seacock allows you to use sea water if you want to. One other thing we do is at the end of the weekend we switch to the sink flush position and pump through a dose of Raritan CP. haven't had any intake odors in several years

 

[Requip]

Alan, you asked; "I have one question: How can I be sure that salt water will now pump through the sink's seacock "
It won't or that is not the goal. The sink's seacock is a drain. Keep your intial plan of the y-valve but leave the saltwater intake to the head not hooked to the Y-valve. The inlet to the Y valve is the sink drain and the outlets are either to the head or overboard. Maybe keep a length of hose connected to the head intake valve/thru hull so you can hook up salt water intake if needed because ran freshwater dry.

All that being said, we are in the same waters. Sure, I will get some stink on the first few flushes after saltwater has been sitting in the intake line for a week between uses. But that goes away . when I had a stink that would not quit, I replaced the hose between the tank / antisyphon loop / maserator and thru hull, mabe 8-10 feet , stink went away. I did not replace the hose from the head to tank because only a 2-3 foot run and I always made sure to pump/flush sufficiently so all waste didn't sit in hoses short of tank ( Peggie's advise) When I had a block last week, i took the hose off between head and tank and the insides were coated with a 1/4 inch layer of hard crud that had broken loose and caused the block. New hose solved that.

Do the hose replacement first.

Scott, Peggy et al,

I finally made some of the changes recommended to my boat this week. It was a real PITA to try and get some of the hoses off the seacocks and re-installed. In fact, almost all of the hoses were way too tight a fit to get them back on to each fitting. I just hated this job.

In anycase, I took two of the recommendations and put them together: first I installed a T between the sink and the sink outlet. I already purchased the Y valve and decided to connect the remaining leg of the T to the Y valve. So I have freshwater from the sink to the Y valve and then onto the head when the sink outlet seacock is turned off.

I then cut the saltwater intake line and took that end coming off the seacock to one of the two remaining legs of the Y valve and then hooked up the end connected to the head to the last remaining leg of the Y valve. So now I can go from freshwater to saltwater intake by just turning the Y valve one way or the other.

Here's the new problem: When I first intalled the system as just described, all worked perfectly. After a day out on the water, I now can only use the freshwater side and there is no draw from the saltwater side. The entire system works from the Y valve to the head so that eliminates a problem with the head pump and Y valve. The only I can assum is that hose from the saltwater intake is blocked or the sea strainer is blocked. When I go to fresh water on the Y valve everything else works fine.

I have considered that the saltwater intake lmaybe higher than the water line, but I checked and everything is below the water line on this side of the system. It was mentioned in an earlier post that air in the system would prevent proper syphoning, but I thought the pump should still be able to draw air out until the water begins to move into the line and all should work. I say this because originally the saltwater intake system worked fine after the retrofit. Then all I got was air.

Any ideas? The pump action on the head will pump water out but I get nothing but the sound of air when I call on the hand pump to bring seawater in from the intake seacock.

 

[Ron20324]

Put a plug in the sink drain so air does not draw into the head feed.

 

[Requip]

Ron,

If I went with the standard "T" installation, putting the plug into the sink would be the common answer. In this case, I have a Y valve in between that when closed, shuts cuts off that side of the sytem (freshwater) completely. So if you infer that air could be rusihing in via the sink, this would not be the case due to the Y Valve that shuts off that side when I want to draw from the saltwater intake.

Thanks for your idea though!

 

[Requip]

Well, strangely the suction problem on the saltwater side has magically repaired itself. I presume it was something stuck in the intake line. Anyway thanks to all for your assistance. I still have a head odor to deal with (scale of 1-10 it's a 4)

Hopefully the constant cleansing of the lines with fresh water and the holding tank with chemicals will somehow magically remove the head odor