Mainsail Reefing Concept
- Thread starter philwsailz
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What you say is true, but I tried the ring first because it looks easy and quick but I wasn't happy because the ring held the block out at an angle to the sail. These Delrin disks allow the block to lay parallel to the sail and the pull is straight to the boom.
The Delrin blocks are secured together with two machine screws and the block is fastened with a 1/4" bolt with a locking nut. It also rotates so it is always aligned exactly right.
The fact that the block isn't flat against the sail means that it will chafe the sail less...
The pull to the boom is still pretty straight with the ring...
I pulled out my mainsail and was inspecting it. I noticed that it has one reef point, but there are 4 cringles across the sail at this point. If I were to have a double line reefing system, how do the center cringles get reefed down?
TonyB- told me that I could clean the sails in a swimming pool. What is the best cleaner to whiten the sails. The threads look fine in the main sail and it is comparably stiff to the 150 genoa I have that is pretty new. but it is dirty looking and would like to clean it before I put it on.
TonyB- told me that I could clean the sails in a swimming pool. What is the best cleaner to whiten the sails. The threads look fine in the main sail and it is comparably stiff to the 150 genoa I have that is pretty new. but it is dirty looking and would like to clean it before I put it on.
Regardless of the number of reefs or the number of reef points, those small openings in the middle or belly of the sail are for small bunt lines that are not used to hold the sail down, but rather to simply gather up the sail material that has been reefed.
I was under the impression that you'd done your homework...
You can read about stuff all day long, and you can get "expert" advice from the guy at the yard that is high on meth but there is simply no substitute for coming here and getting 100's of years of combined experience.
After research and getting some advice from some guys in the yard. I was told there is no difference in polyester and epoxy except that epoxy is easier to mix and has a longer lay up time. So I repaired 5 large blisters on the hull with polyester. Will they be ok? I don't know, I prepped the area pretty good and followed good technique.
After I came here and learned more I wish rI would have repaired it with epoxy since it's under water.
So when some one tells me I shouldn't ask questions about something because the answer is somewhere else...I want them to go back and do it right on my boat if I do it wrong the first time.
After research and getting some advice from some guys in the yard. I was told there is no difference in polyester and epoxy except that epoxy is easier to mix and has a longer lay up time. So I repaired 5 large blisters on the hull with polyester. Will they be ok? I don't know, I prepped the area pretty good and followed good technique.
After I came here and learned more I wish rI would have repaired it with epoxy since it's under water.
So when some one tells me I shouldn't ask questions about something because the answer is somewhere else...I want them to go back and do it right on my boat if I do it wrong the first time.
The experience base on some of the forums is excellent... especially with resources like MaineSail...
While I agree that doing your due diligence and at least attempting to research an answer is a good idea, sometimes asking the question is necessary. However, some questions have been asked so many times that even a half-assed attempt at researching it would bring up many answers—and it is those questions that get a bit old to answer.... YMMV.
somethings are intuitively ok to do, but have catastrophic results. What percentage of boat owners with an inboard engine and a waterlift muffler think it's ok to hook a waterhose up to the raw water intake to cool the engine while on the hard?
I watched my dad do it with an inboard/outboard mercruiser, why would it not be ok on a sailboat with a diesel?
I think if you have grown up around boats and the yard that EVERYTHING seems so rhetorical.
I watched my dad do it with an inboard/outboard mercruiser, why would it not be ok on a sailboat with a diesel?
I think if you have grown up around boats and the yard that EVERYTHING seems so rhetorical.
Gents, I have now had time to switch from my dual line setup to the single line setup shown in this NEW picture. Gone is the over-complicated 2:1 purchase on a dedicated clew line as was shown in my original post idea...
I have to share with you that for this sailor, and this boat, (Catalina 22) terminating the reefing line at the reefing clew cringle rather than through the clew cringle and down to the boom really does improve the performance of this system. I have enough line to rig this in the traditional manner, but I have now had the time over a week and a long weekend to shake this out and decide which way I like better.
In this sailors opinion, on this sailors boat, based on some almost scientific comparisons, the friction between the reefing line and the clew cringle during the process of reefing is greater than the mechanical advantage that is delivered by the 2:1 purchase offered by taking the reefing line through the clew cringle and down to the boom. Tying the reefing line directly to the clew cringle provided a much easier and quicker reefing action with much less friction. An added bonus is that the amount of line to be hauled in is less by about 2 feet. Additionally when shaking out the reef, the reduced friction at the cringle made it a lot easier to haul the main back up to full, without having to push reefing line line back through.
Certainly for a different boat, with a larger sail plan it would be prudent if not beneficial to take advantage of a 2:1 purchase at the clew, either through the clew cringle or through a block attached to the clew cringle. But for this application, I think I would recommend that sailors of smaller boats might consider giving it a try.
I will continue to evaluate this, but at the moment, you will have a hard time convincing me this is a bad way... I hope to find a way to shoot some video of how simply and solidly it works. I will at least post some pics of the finished installation...
I have to share with you that for this sailor, and this boat, (Catalina 22) terminating the reefing line at the reefing clew cringle rather than through the clew cringle and down to the boom really does improve the performance of this system. I have enough line to rig this in the traditional manner, but I have now had the time over a week and a long weekend to shake this out and decide which way I like better.
In this sailors opinion, on this sailors boat, based on some almost scientific comparisons, the friction between the reefing line and the clew cringle during the process of reefing is greater than the mechanical advantage that is delivered by the 2:1 purchase offered by taking the reefing line through the clew cringle and down to the boom. Tying the reefing line directly to the clew cringle provided a much easier and quicker reefing action with much less friction. An added bonus is that the amount of line to be hauled in is less by about 2 feet. Additionally when shaking out the reef, the reduced friction at the cringle made it a lot easier to haul the main back up to full, without having to push reefing line line back through.
Certainly for a different boat, with a larger sail plan it would be prudent if not beneficial to take advantage of a 2:1 purchase at the clew, either through the clew cringle or through a block attached to the clew cringle. But for this application, I think I would recommend that sailors of smaller boats might consider giving it a try.
I will continue to evaluate this, but at the moment, you will have a hard time convincing me this is a bad way... I hope to find a way to shoot some video of how simply and solidly it works. I will at least post some pics of the finished installation...
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dear guest
Why do you hide behide the cloak of anonymity? Are you incarcerated? Are the creditors after you? What is it, brother, we're all friends here yet you insist on being a stranger. If you want any credibility at all... saddle up and join the rodeo.
reef system comment.
The single line system works the same way as the two line. The downside is there is a lot more friction/resistance than the 2 line system. I have found that snugging down the clew first, by jumping the horizontal boom line from the cockpit, then pulling the slack out while tightening up the tack, works best for me ..... on my boat.
If you choose to use blocks to ease the friction.... you should consider mounting the tack block as tightly to the sail as possible. A small shackle or a piece of line/webbing connecting to a steel ring on the opposite side of the cringle should remove much of the potential play a pennant might cause.
I have also seen systems that attach cheek blocks with backing plates directly to the sail's luff... that doesn't work so good with the clew end. If you google "sailboat reefing systems" and search past the intial harken and ronstan entries, you're likely to stumble upon some interesting set ups that will give you even more ideas.
Hi Phil.... Your reef connection should pull the clew straight down and straight back. That's why the line doubles back down to the boom, not to give purchase. The same can be said for the tack connection. Straight down and forward... that's why most single and double line systems thread the line through the cringle rather than pull from a block on the side.A better pic; who needs to see to the top?
The single line system works the same way as the two line. The downside is there is a lot more friction/resistance than the 2 line system. I have found that snugging down the clew first, by jumping the horizontal boom line from the cockpit, then pulling the slack out while tightening up the tack, works best for me ..... on my boat.
If you choose to use blocks to ease the friction.... you should consider mounting the tack block as tightly to the sail as possible. A small shackle or a piece of line/webbing connecting to a steel ring on the opposite side of the cringle should remove much of the potential play a pennant might cause.
I have also seen systems that attach cheek blocks with backing plates directly to the sail's luff... that doesn't work so good with the clew end. If you google "sailboat reefing systems" and search past the intial harken and ronstan entries, you're likely to stumble upon some interesting set ups that will give you even more ideas.
Hey Joe-
(where you ging with that gun in your hand, sorry, had to... )
Thanks for your reply. I certainly agree that the two-line system is very friction free, having just taken down a two-line system so I could play with single line. My reasons for trying the single-line system are the fact that I single-hand a lot, I have a limited number of clutches currrently installed on the deck, and well, I wanted to play with it.
I fully understand the need or want to pull the clew down from both sides and agree it is the correct way to keep the sail centered on the boom, applying the load to the sail in the direction it was designed for. The experience however with this boat and sail show that there is no appreciable difference when I just tie off right to the clew cringle and lead the line down to the cheek block; I have now tried it both ways several times over the last week. I will have to get documentation; I was out last night, but had no crew, so it was both hands for the boat and none for the camera! I really need to video the process... With crew manning the helm, one can haul the reefing line with one hand, while playing out the main halyard with the other. I have done it but a couple of times, but it is really sweet to watch the sail drop and reef all at the same time. The tack is engaged by a small reefing hook with a small swivel block, and the cheek block pulls it forward nicely, as the clew is pulled back.
For those died-in-the wool traditionalists who would suggest my modification as heresy, I know I am breaking tradition. I am an engineer that ponders things, yet also fully understands the futility of re-inventing the wheel. My original post and sketch was totally reinventing the wheel, I realize that now for sure. It was over-complicated, especially in light of the fact we are dealing with a relatively small sail and as a result relatively small loads on this Catalina 22.
That being said, and for this boat, I am now comfortable with the reefing system proposed in my second picture, knowing that I can still go through the clew cringle if necessary. I just will add that in my short experience with this system, it is unnecessary.
I still will get pictures, and if I can gett video of the live action, I will post it for sure!
Have a great day!
(where you ging with that gun in your hand, sorry, had to...
)Thanks for your reply. I certainly agree that the two-line system is very friction free, having just taken down a two-line system so I could play with single line. My reasons for trying the single-line system are the fact that I single-hand a lot, I have a limited number of clutches currrently installed on the deck, and well, I wanted to play with it.
I fully understand the need or want to pull the clew down from both sides and agree it is the correct way to keep the sail centered on the boom, applying the load to the sail in the direction it was designed for. The experience however with this boat and sail show that there is no appreciable difference when I just tie off right to the clew cringle and lead the line down to the cheek block; I have now tried it both ways several times over the last week. I will have to get documentation; I was out last night, but had no crew, so it was both hands for the boat and none for the camera!
I really need to video the process... With crew manning the helm, one can haul the reefing line with one hand, while playing out the main halyard with the other. I have done it but a couple of times, but it is really sweet to watch the sail drop and reef all at the same time. The tack is engaged by a small reefing hook with a small swivel block, and the cheek block pulls it forward nicely, as the clew is pulled back.For those died-in-the wool traditionalists who would suggest my modification as heresy, I know I am breaking tradition. I am an engineer that ponders things, yet also fully understands the futility of re-inventing the wheel. My original post and sketch was totally reinventing the wheel, I realize that now for sure. It was over-complicated, especially in light of the fact we are dealing with a relatively small sail and as a result relatively small loads on this Catalina 22.
That being said, and for this boat, I am now comfortable with the reefing system proposed in my second picture, knowing that I can still go through the clew cringle if necessary. I just will add that in my short experience with this system, it is unnecessary.
I still will get pictures, and if I can gett video of the live action, I will post it for sure!
Have a great day!
Again, the setup you're picturing doesn't provide sufficient downward force on the reefing clew cringle, and will cause some serious issues with sail shape when reefed.
A better pic; who needs to see to the top?
Hermit,
I found this very helpful in understanding the concept of reefing
http://sailmaker.com/articles/reefing.htm
We are both new (one season) to sailing/boating and we both have Catalina 30's. I've enjoyed and learned a lot from some of the topics you've posted. I am setting up my boat which I launched about 10 days ago. The weather here in the northeast has been terrible. I was going to spend a week in Nantucket but couldn't convince the wife to come so we went to CA on a whim. Ended up at Yosemite. Far cry from sailing in the rain! I went to the boat Monday night to put the main sail on. We had steady 25 kt wind. It was a bear especially when I realized I had attached the gooseneck on the boom upside down and I had nowhere to pin the sail tack. I agree the advice received here is invaluable but digesting it and doing it is another story. We learn by our own mistakes. Someday we may be the ones giving the advice!
I found this very helpful in understanding the concept of reefing
http://sailmaker.com/articles/reefing.htm
We are both new (one season) to sailing/boating and we both have Catalina 30's. I've enjoyed and learned a lot from some of the topics you've posted. I am setting up my boat which I launched about 10 days ago. The weather here in the northeast has been terrible. I was going to spend a week in Nantucket but couldn't convince the wife to come so we went to CA on a whim. Ended up at Yosemite. Far cry from sailing in the rain! I went to the boat Monday night to put the main sail on. We had steady 25 kt wind. It was a bear especially when I realized I had attached the gooseneck on the boom upside down and I had nowhere to pin the sail tack. I agree the advice received here is invaluable but digesting it and doing it is another story. We learn by our own mistakes. Someday we may be the ones giving the advice!
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