Ethanol and gas engines

[Gail R]

Hello all and happly almost Fourth of July!

I write a boating column for the local paper and someone suggested I write something on ethanol in gasoline. I'm perusing the web for info on this, and I have looked in the archives here and found some stuff (including a post from May '09 on the move to increase it to 15% - yikes!), but am looking for fresh material from people with experience.

Have any of you changed your practices w/r/t engine care and fuel use now that ethanol blended gas is more prevalent? If so, what are you doing?

Have you experienced problems that you think are due to ethanol blend gas? What were they and how costly?

Are the stabilizers and other products useful or do you think they are nothing but snake oil?

Do you think this whole ethanol thing is being blown out of proportion?

If you're willing to be quoted with your name, that's great; if not, I understand.

TIA.

 

[catsailor]

There was an artical, based on laboratory testing, in Practical Sailor

Hello all and happly almost Fourth of July!

I write a boating column for the local paper and someone suggested I write something on ethanol in gasoline. I'm perusing the web for info on this, and I have looked in the archives here and found some stuff (including a post from May '09 on the move to increase it to 15% - yikes!), but am looking for fresh material from people with experience.

Have any of you changed your practices w/r/t engine care and fuel use now that ethanol blended gas is more prevalent? If so, what are you doing?

Have you experienced problems that you think are due to ethanol blend gas? What were they and how costly?

Are the stabilizers and other products useful or do you think they are nothing but snake oil?

Do you think this whole ethanol thing is being blown out of proportion?

If you're willing to be quoted with your name, that's great; if not, I understand.

TIA.

A few months ago that clearly showed that ALL of the additive claims regarding stabilizing E-10 against water drop-out were untrue. Call Practical Sailor.

 

[BobSail]

We avoid it like the plague. Oregon is supposed to provide a source of unblended gas for exempted uses (airplanes, snowmobiles, yard equipment, etc.). Marc Nelson Oil Products in Salem is our source. I always hear horror stories while at the pumps about damaged and destroyed engines of all types. You might get some tips there. One of the original authors of the bill requiring its use in Oregon was involved with trying to repeal it this year (Rep. Vicki Walker, D, Eugene). She stated that her hybrid car actually experienced reduced mileage from the blend. I can think of no good reason to put alcohol in an engine. Just my take.

 

[Stu Jackson]

E-10

BoatUS has been following this for years. Try their website.

 

[sailingdog]

Ethanol-blend gasolines have lower fuel economy and shorter shelf-life than the MTBE based gasolines that came before them, especially in a marine environment, which has a high ambient humidity and increases the rate at which the ethanol absorbs water.

Most boaters I know using E10 gasoline are trying to keep it fresher and stock less of it, so as not to have it around long enough for it to go bad. This is especially a problem on sailboats, where the engines may not be run for extended periods of time.

 

[kloudie1]

Yeah.. ethanol has a good many fewer BTU's per gallon than gasoline does.. so when ya replace some gasoline with alcohol, the energy content is less. energy makes the car go so less energy equals less go.. All cars will get fewer miles per gallon with ethanol blends than with straight gasoline.. The only thing ethanol in gasoline helps is the political pork barrels of the states that grow lots of corn. It was a bad idea from the start and still is. The case for putting it into gasoline should be studied for the untoward influence that "un-science" and its followers had over logic and fact.. (OK I am off the soapbox now)

 

[bffatcat]

ethanol???

I bought a new tohatsu 4 cycle 8hp outboard last year. The dealer told me do not use
gas that is more than 30 days old or I will run into problems. I don`t motor that much
I usually sail off and on my mooring and after 30 days I have most of the gas left in the outboard tank. I take the gas thats left in the tank at the end of 30 days and pour it in my
cars gas tank. Its a nuisance. My 20 year old 2 cycle mercury seemed to run ok on the
ethanol blended gas with. I think this ethanol idea is a nuisance.

 

[RichH]

Suggest you do your research within the API (American Petroleum Institute), or call them for references, leads, etc. for your articles. Ditto with BoatUS.

http://www.api.org/
http://www.api.org/contactus.cfm

get your info direct from the 'horse's mouth'.

 

[Shell]

I am at a 400 boat marina. We have yet to have a boat that had a problem with ethanol. Many a owner, with a poorly maintained engine have blamed problems on the fuel.

There is a slight decrease in power just as in a car.

 

[catsailor]

And what of the fact that food prices (Corn) went up and so did death from starvation

I am at a 400 boat marina. We have yet to have a boat that had a problem with ethanol. Many a owner, with a poorly maintained engine have blamed problems on the fuel.

There is a slight decrease in power just as in a car.

How do we feel about that? For no provable environmental benefit (less CO, more VOC, less forrest, equal ground water harm{MTBE vs increased benzene mobility}). For a $1.50/gallon subsidy, by the time we include direct payments and tax reductions? What about the $14 billion shortfall in the highway trust fund (2008 bailout + current shortfall)?

Perhaps the problems in boats are minor - I have studied them and in some areas they are more serious. It is very micro climate dependant, so there are no broad rules.

Let it stand on its real merits without subsody. That is all I ask. We, as the world and as world citizens, cannot afford this sham. We are ugly Americans.

 

[Gail R]

Re: And what of the fact that food prices (Corn) went up and so did death from starvation

Thanks all... Boat US was one of the first places I checked and yes, they had good info. A local yard guy (who did not want to be quoted in the article due to controversy) suggested I check the sites of a couple outboard manufacturers, so there was good info there as well. General consensus is avoid it if you can, but that's not always practical. So don't let it sit long enough for phase separation to set in. Jury's still out on the stabilizers.

The bottom line if you have to use E10: Use your boat! That way it won't sit around long. Naturally, it's easier for power boaters to use it up than sailors, but the column is geared toward both power and sail.

Feel free to comment more. Thanks!

 

[DougM]

From What I have read and heard the biggest issue with e10 concerns boats (mostly older power boats) that were built with integral fiberglass gas tanks. The alcohol apparently attacks the resin and causes the fuel filters to clog and possibly worse engine damage. The only fix for that was to replace the fuel tanks.

Fortunately, for those of us with sailboats, many are diesel powered. Of course diesels aren't without their problems either. If we don't use our fuel, there is always the possibility of bacterial growth in the tanks, which settles, and when it gets sloshed around, it too can clog fuel filters.

 

[catsailor]

No, the jury is NOT out on stabilizers. I did the lab testing.

Thanks all... Boat US was one of the first places I checked and yes, they had good info. A local yard guy (who did not want to be quoted in the article due to controversy) suggested I check the sites of a couple outboard manufacturers, so there was good info there as well. General consensus is avoid it if you can, but that's not always practical. So don't let it sit long enough for phase separation to set in. Jury's still out on the stabilizers.

The bottom line if you have to use E10: Use your boat! That way it won't sit around long. Naturally, it's easier for power boaters to use it up than sailors, but the column is geared toward both power and sail.

Feel free to comment more. Thanks!

Snake oil. Pure snake oil. None had ANY measurable effect.

I take that back; one did, but at the cost of putting too many other chemicals through the engine.

Please, look for side-by-side test data by a 3rd party. The only people who think they work are guessing (they have used it but did not have a control) or they are just quoting sales literature.

 

[Hermit Scott]

I like the idea of looking to the engine manufacturers that have to pay for the engines that fail under warranty. If anyone has a motive to get to the bottom of it, it's the guy who has to pay for a bunch of crapped out engines.

 

[Warren 22]

Suggest "STA-BIL Marine Formula" with E10. I understand E15 will kill the engine!
First it was the "Owl", now ethanol......The tree huggers got us again!

 

[Bob J.]

Most fuel stabilzers are alcohol based & therefore have the tendency to attract mositure which just makes for a worse situation. Ethanol is the pits when it comes to small motors that get little use. It destroy's carbs & rubber fuel lines.

Bob

 

[MrBee]

Plane and simple....BIG Business and Politics .. Follow the money and you will see that it don't have to be good for us, it just has to be profitable for those two mentioned above.

That will never change.

 

[Hermit Scott]

Plane and simple....BIG Business and Politics .. Follow the money and you will see that it don't have to be good for us, it just has to be profitable for those two mentioned above.

That will never change.

Like leaded fuel was.