Chasing down interior leaks is always a tough assignment. For the 10 years I've had my O'Day 28 I've had two pesky cabin leaks. (1) water comes in through the port side cabin light through the hole for the electric wires. (2) also on the port side forward of the cabin light is the window port that opens. Even when tightly secure water gets in. I've tried caulking around the port on the exterior but no luck. Suggestions of similar experiences and correct action is appreciated.
Leaky Cabin
- Thread starter Riga
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Riga, I had the same problem with the port-side cabin light on my O'Day 23. I was pretty sure the water was getting in through the base of the grab rails on the cabin top and also possibly through the screw holes for the hatch running board. I pulled and rebed the grab rails and hatch boards this past spring, and since then I've seen no sign of water getting into the cabin light.
Bob
Bob
Boat Leaks
Bob and Riga,
I learned that boats leak. Even new ones. And where you find water is not necessarily where it originates.
We have had many discussions of types of caulking and sealants on this forum. It has been pointed out that all are not as good or even good for stoping leaks.
On the O28 consider that that location of the inside leak is not coming directly from the outside. Is the water running on the inside of liner until it finds the port and a way thru?
My boat leaks when it rains from one direction but does not leak from other directions. And where I find a very small puddle does not relate to how wind direction has anything to do with the leak.
It is a very small leak and only would be an issue if boat were unattended for long time. But knowning where and how would be nice.
Ed K
O 26
Bob and Riga,
I learned that boats leak. Even new ones. And where you find water is not necessarily where it originates.
We have had many discussions of types of caulking and sealants on this forum. It has been pointed out that all are not as good or even good for stoping leaks.
On the O28 consider that that location of the inside leak is not coming directly from the outside. Is the water running on the inside of liner until it finds the port and a way thru?
My boat leaks when it rains from one direction but does not leak from other directions. And where I find a very small puddle does not relate to how wind direction has anything to do with the leak.
It is a very small leak and only would be an issue if boat were unattended for long time. But knowning where and how would be nice.
Ed K
O 26
Ed, you're right that where you find water is not necessarily where it originates. You're also right that not all caulking will necessarily stop leaks.
In the case of my port-side cabin light, it was largely a process of elimination. Last year I pulled my chainplates and rebed them. Did the same with the mast step. Both the chainplates and mast step had been leaking. I also resealed the hinges on the forward hatch. After all that, water still seeped into the cabin light. The only other place on the cabin top where water could be getting in (aside from where the wire for the light on the mast emerges at the base of the mast--which I also resealed) were the grab rails and/or the teak hatch slides, both of which had not been rebed for many years. So I rebed them. No more water in the cabin light. So I'm assuming the water was coming from one of those two sources.
I'm having less luck with some water that finds its way into my bilge when it rains hard. Two years ago I replaced my entire rubrail, so I don't think the water's getting in through there (as it was when I first bought the boat in 2006), but maybe I did a poor job of that. Or maybe its getting in through the pulpit bases or the lifeline stanchion bases. I don't think it's the toerails, which I also replaced and rebed this year.
So I share your frustration. In my case, the leak doesn't seem to be a huge problem, but I want to find it and eliminate it since it might be doing damage that I can't see.
Bob
In the case of my port-side cabin light, it was largely a process of elimination. Last year I pulled my chainplates and rebed them. Did the same with the mast step. Both the chainplates and mast step had been leaking. I also resealed the hinges on the forward hatch. After all that, water still seeped into the cabin light. The only other place on the cabin top where water could be getting in (aside from where the wire for the light on the mast emerges at the base of the mast--which I also resealed) were the grab rails and/or the teak hatch slides, both of which had not been rebed for many years. So I rebed them. No more water in the cabin light. So I'm assuming the water was coming from one of those two sources.
I'm having less luck with some water that finds its way into my bilge when it rains hard. Two years ago I replaced my entire rubrail, so I don't think the water's getting in through there (as it was when I first bought the boat in 2006), but maybe I did a poor job of that. Or maybe its getting in through the pulpit bases or the lifeline stanchion bases. I don't think it's the toerails, which I also replaced and rebed this year.
So I share your frustration. In my case, the leak doesn't seem to be a huge problem, but I want to find it and eliminate it since it might be doing damage that I can't see.
Bob
Hi,
I have taken EVERTHING off the deck of my Oday 26 and am in the process of repairing a considerable amount of cored deck. The Problem that i see is that ALL the through deck fittings forward of the cockpit,with the exception of the toerails and forward hatch, affect the core. I found a great deal of rotted core along the handrails, the hatch slides, the pulpit, the tabernacle, and of course the chain plates. Even the lifeline stanchions are mounted through the core (at least the inner two bolts are).I have found that my Oday has several areas of leaks that can run along the cabin liner and drain a considerable distance away. There is a small, approx 1/16th inch gap between the inner skin of my deck and my cabin liner. So any water coming in through a fitting can flow along the curve, the track of which depends on how the boat is lying when the rains come. For example, the water that leaks through the mast tabernacle can run forward, aft, and laterally along the liner.
keith
I have taken EVERTHING off the deck of my Oday 26 and am in the process of repairing a considerable amount of cored deck. The Problem that i see is that ALL the through deck fittings forward of the cockpit,with the exception of the toerails and forward hatch, affect the core. I found a great deal of rotted core along the handrails, the hatch slides, the pulpit, the tabernacle, and of course the chain plates. Even the lifeline stanchions are mounted through the core (at least the inner two bolts are).I have found that my Oday has several areas of leaks that can run along the cabin liner and drain a considerable distance away. There is a small, approx 1/16th inch gap between the inner skin of my deck and my cabin liner. So any water coming in through a fitting can flow along the curve, the track of which depends on how the boat is lying when the rains come. For example, the water that leaks through the mast tabernacle can run forward, aft, and laterally along the liner.
keith
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Cabin leaks can drive you up a wall. I've been there and done that many times over. I had leaks in my cabin that turned out to be from the rub rail. I fixed that and discovered a small leak coming down the threads of one of my Tabernacle bolts. I sat in my cabin one day during a big thunder storm with heavy rain, just watching this bolt and while it was pouring hard rain, not one drop came through the threads of this bolt under the nut and washer. As soon as the rain stopped, and the sun came out real bright, that bolt started to leak water on my V birth. So consequently, the water was collecting around the hole of that bolt, and slowly found a path through the threads and into my cabin. That week, I brought her over to the dock, let the mast down and pulled that bolt out and coated it with Polysulfide and I've never had a problem since. When I replaced my cockpit self bailing hose I got stuck in my lazarett hatch and almost didn't get free. So I cut a hole in the center of my inside transom and installed a deck plate. On examination of my backup plates for my gudgeons, I noticed a water stain around the area of my lower gudgeon. So I removed both of the gudeons and plates and re caulked them with Polysulfide. I was able to do this job alone, thanks to the deck plate. It's not an easy task to find leaks. You need to visually look at areas for water stains and basically go with your gut feelings on where it could be coming in. I can honestly say that today, my boat has no leaks that I know of. If I discover any leaks, I will pursue them and eliminate them as soon as possible. Happy hunting!
Joe
Joe
Keith, your experience makes me wonder what I'd find if I removed the skin from my deck! No doubt some of the same surprises you found.
Joe, I had a similar experience last fall. While looking into the lazarett of my O'Day 23, I noticed water stains running down the inside of the hull near the stern corner on the port side. It turns out the water was coming from three or four screws from the rubrail that I replaced the year before. Apparently, I did not use enough sealant on those screws. All the others nearby seemed fine. I took care of the problem after haulout.
I also took your advice and installed two deck plates so that I can more easily get at the hardware on the starboard side of the stern. Easy job, great idea. Thanks!
Bob
Joe, I had a similar experience last fall. While looking into the lazarett of my O'Day 23, I noticed water stains running down the inside of the hull near the stern corner on the port side. It turns out the water was coming from three or four screws from the rubrail that I replaced the year before. Apparently, I did not use enough sealant on those screws. All the others nearby seemed fine. I took care of the problem after haulout.
I also took your advice and installed two deck plates so that I can more easily get at the hardware on the starboard side of the stern. Easy job, great idea. Thanks!
Bob
I'm happy that it worked out for you Bob. Removing my rub rail and caulking it was one of the easiest jobs that I ever did. I'd hate to have to remove lifeline stanchions because, 1. The nuts for the bolts can be hard at on some of them. 2. You stand a chance of breaking a bolt because stainless steel is noted for that, and 3. It takes two people to remove this hardware. I have to admit though, that the gudgeons were very easy to remove, caulk, and reinstall with the aid of the deck plate.
Joe
Joe
Joe, Bob, Keith and Ed: Thank you very much for the comments and experiences. I think its most likely the hatch running board or hand rail.
Since I've done very little over the years to rebed deck fitting I should probably work towards doing a complete overhaul. Seems like a lot of work but suppose it must be done. Any suggestion on the best caulk for the job? In the past when I removed a winch and recaulked the bolt holes I squeezed caulk into the hole and then almost all of it was pushed through and out by the bolt. Kind of felt like I was doing something wrong.
Since I've done very little over the years to rebed deck fitting I should probably work towards doing a complete overhaul. Seems like a lot of work but suppose it must be done. Any suggestion on the best caulk for the job? In the past when I removed a winch and recaulked the bolt holes I squeezed caulk into the hole and then almost all of it was pushed through and out by the bolt. Kind of felt like I was doing something wrong.
Joe,
what are the gudeons? What do you mean about that it was "easy because of the deck plate"?
I spent most of my day off trying to "fare" the thickend epoxy over the deck repair under my tabernacle. That is the largest fiberglass project that i have taken on, and, with the three way curve there, the hardest to make look seamless. And it is the result of those danged deck leaks ignored for too long by the prior owner.
Keith
Backyard sailor (for now)
I would check out any of Don Casey's books like "This Old Boat" or "Sailboat Hull & Deck Repair". Another nice book is "Fitting Out Your Boat" by Michael Naujok. You don't have to go out and buy these books because they are probably in your local public library. I've used "BoatLife Boat Caulk" and 3-M Adhesive Sealant 4000 UV which is my favorite for metal deck hardware. For plastic type hardware you want to use something like Dow Corning 795 which has a silicon and another ingredient that has the adhesive qualities of Polysulfide. Polysulfide caulking will cause plastic or acrylic port lights and hatches to dry out and crack. It's important to use the right caulking for the right job. The procedure for sealing, say-- a deck cleat for instance: I would put blue masking tape on the surface around the cleat and remove the cleat and clean the area. Then I would apply the caulking around the bolt holes and also a bead of caulking inside the blue tape area where the cleat will sit. Then coat upper half of each bolt as far as the bolts will go into the cleat and the fiberglass, and insert the bolts. Put the back-up plate on and the washers and nuts and just get the nuts and washers snug while you are holding the bolt heads. You don't want to tighten it up too much and squeeze all the caulking out. Let it sit for a couple of days until the caulking sets up, and then come back and re-tighten the nuts down good while holding the bolt heads. You don't want the bolts to turn when you are tightening the nuts. The excess caulking around the cleat can be cut with a sharp cutter and the tape can be removed. The tape makes it a clean job and cuts down on needless cleaning. Before you do anything, check out this link.
http://www.boatus.com/howto/howto_lib.htm Good luck!
Joe
Riga, I second Joe's recommendations. I'm a newbie sailor and boatowner (this is my fourth season), and I learned everything pretty much from scratch. My boat was also neglected by the previous owner and needed a lot of maintenance, most of which I didn't even know I had to do until someone would mention it or I asked a question on this forum. Don Casey's books (especially Sailboat Hull & Deck Repair) have been extremely helpful, as has been this discussion board. I'd suggest searching the archives of this site. There have been many helpful threads about these issues.
I also endorse Joe's comments about caulking. I've used 3M 4000 and 3M 101 for the jobs we have been discussing. I've used the Dow Corning 795 for things like deck plates--plastics, as Joe suggests.
The best thing about doing these jobs is how much you learn about taking care of your boat so that you can prevent future problems.
Bob
I also endorse Joe's comments about caulking. I've used 3M 4000 and 3M 101 for the jobs we have been discussing. I've used the Dow Corning 795 for things like deck plates--plastics, as Joe suggests.
The best thing about doing these jobs is how much you learn about taking care of your boat so that you can prevent future problems.
Bob
Keith,
The gudgeons are those two pieces of hardware on the stern of your boat where the rudder is attached via the Pintles on the rudder head. The deck plate is nothing more than a round frame with a screw on cover. I installed an 8" Beckson Deck Plate which allowed me to access my cockpit self bailing hose, my outboard electric cable, gudgeon nuts bolts and plates, and my outboard motor bracket on my stern. That mast step repair that you just made is very common to a wide variety of sailboats. A guy with an O'Day Day Sailor 2 just started a thread on that subject. I gave him this web site which is Don Casey's site; http://www.boatus.com/howto/howto_lib.htm A lot of Don Casey's books are probably in your public library. So you don't have to go out and buy them. Here's a picture of my deck plate. Keith,--you don't want to get stuck in that hatch opening in the last picture. The deck plate makes it a heck of a lot easier to access all those things that I mentioned.
Joe
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Thanks for the info Joe, I have looked at your "trinka'a modifications" photo album several times. You have a lot of good ideas, and well executed.
I have the latest edition of "this old boat" and you're right, it is an excellent resource. I also like "epoxy works" online website, as well as this forum. I don't know how we got by before the internet!
thanks again
keith
Thanks Keith,
I've had a few ideas over the years that really fizzled and turned out to be a big disappointment, but you win a few and lose a few I guess.
Hey Keith! I have friend named Norman who lives in Ozark AL. He wanted to buy a Mac 26 but opted for an RV instead. He and his wife Debbie are on the road right now heading up to MA. Good luck with your repair!
Joe
I've had a few ideas over the years that really fizzled and turned out to be a big disappointment, but you win a few and lose a few I guess.
Hey Keith! I have friend named Norman who lives in Ozark AL. He wanted to buy a Mac 26 but opted for an RV instead. He and his wife Debbie are on the road right now heading up to MA. Good luck with your repair!
Joe
I'm with you on that one. I'll take a sailboat any day. At least I can go almost anywhere and drop the hook and it won't cost me anything. Oh boy, I better not say that too loud.
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