Appropriate notice to give way?

[Stormsailor]

Recently I was teaching my wife how to sail our hunter 23.5, A 35 Catalina, a ways off, caught up with us, and came withing 25 feet of my boat before coming to the inside of my starboard tac. We were both running out of water, I needed to tac, but tacking would have made me hit his boat. He came up along side, withing 15 feet, and tacked just as the warning on my depth finder sounded. I was forced to turn into to the other direction to avoid collision, we were not racing, nor did I have a jib up, and it was clear we were not in a rush. At what point should I have signaled him to give me more room? Is there a flag that can be posted to signal that there is a beginner on the tiller? if I was racing I would have understood and proceeded with evasive manuvers. But we weren't.
I was smoked, :cussing:I would have liked to flip him off when he smiled like and waved. He was way too close, period.- Jeff

 

[Bob V]

Air horn

5 short blasts on an air horn is the accepted signal for "collision warning". That should get his attention and if you are that close on two sailboats, he's probably within shouting distance once you sound the horn and get his attention. A hand signal pointing where you need to go could also accompany the shouted request to "give way" after the horn gets his attention.

BTW, if there are two sailboats going in the same direction, by definition, you were racing. It just wasn't an officially recognized event.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

What may have seemed too close to you can often be perceived by someone who is used to racing as a huge separation. It all depends on your frame of reference.
From my perspective, if you are that close, all you need do is yell "tacking". If he's far enough away so you can't be heard, no problem.

 

[petersea]

This may not be a popular comment however if you saw the other boat "a ways off" I would have mentioned to you wife it was there and maybe it would have been a good time to tach early, it would have taught her to be pro active to avoid this type of situation before it causes a "situation". YOU apparently noticed it to have some concern. Had there been a collision both parties would have been judged on percentage of their responsibilities (in a admiralty court) as both parties have responsibilities to avoid a collision at all times. If you were running out of water clearly you may have waited to long to tach based on you noticed the other boat prior to running into low water. The other operator was also wrong to have "pushed" the how close you both were as clearly you description indicated both boats were indeed very close. It is a little like operating a car and knowing how to control it in a skid vs. operating a car and know how to so it never skids ! ! Be a little bit more pro active and sailing will be less stressful. Of course if you are racing the rules change ! !

 

[Stu Jackson]

The sooner the better

Peter's right, and that makes it way easier. Competitive attitudes about "room to tac" are for the adrenalin minded who watch their tachs, which is way too tacky for me, so just tack when you can.

 

[Warren Milberg]

While I try to abide by the Rules of the Road whenever and wherever I'm sailing, over the years I've found that a number of both power and sail boaters either do not know, or do not care, about the rules. In the end, the idea is to avoid a collision and I often take early evasive action whenever I suspect an approaching boat may "push it" too close. When such a situation occurs, I don't care who is privileged and who is burdened -- I get out of the way and I do it early. My own rule of thumb is: the bigger he is the more space I give him, period.

Consider this example: A few years ago, a friend of mine sailing his beautiful CD 28 on a clear day with virutally no other boats in sight was dismasted by an approaching trawler that tangled its bow sprit in his standing rigging. My friend was clearly visible and was clearly the so-called priviliged vessel. He was on a crossing patter with the trawler and saw it approaching from miles away. He could not believe the trawler skipper didn't see him and would give way. He later learned the trawler was on autopilot with no one on the bridge. In the end, my friend had "wrong of way," a major insurance claim (mostly paid by the trawler's company), serious problems restoring his boat and finding replacement spars, and he lost two sailing seasons. This is a "privilige" I can do without.

 

[Ross]

Closing and constant bearing are my watch words when sailing or driving. Changing course by just 5 degrees while a half mile off will completely eliminate the problem. If motoring just throttle back a couple of knots.

 

[Dave D]

I'm really not in a hurry while I sail. WHENEVER I see a boat on a crossing pattern that has a probability of resulting in us trying to occupy the same position at the same time, I assume he is either not aware, or not concerned with the "rules", and I act accordingly. I tell my children when I recognize a crossing, and help them see, judging by speed and course, whether there is a perceived issue, then act accordingly. I would be perfectly happy to never have to take emergency evasive action, and sail with that goal in mind. You can have that piece of water, it's not mine and it's not worth my kids or my vessel, just to be "right".

 

[sailaway78]

Always be aware

I try to always be aware of any boat within sight, and keep up with their bearing. If you watch where they are in relation to your boat, it's easy to tell whether you are on a collision course or not. Just check their bearing in relation to your boat, and if it's constant, your on a collision course. I normally line them up with a something on my boat, and watch to see if that angle changes. And do whatever is necessary, a good way off, to change my course if necessary. But I'm like you, if another boat crowds me, particularly in a limited mobility situation, I'm gonna be pissed.

 

[tsmwebb]

.... My friend was clearly visible and was clearly the so-called priviliged vessel. He was on a crossing patter with the trawler and saw it approaching from miles away. He could not believe the trawler skipper didn't see him and would give way. ...

IME, crews on trawlers and long liners are either sleeping or working. They seldom keep a lookout. I just assume that they are always "engaged in fishing" and give them as wide a berth as practical -- can be annoying though when a fleet of them are shooting around all over the place. Not suggesting anything about your particular case but heres the pecking order:http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule18.htm.

For the OP, I understand the agro, but why not slow down and tack astern? I'm not sure why it is (and I'm subject to it too) but sailboaters seem to forget that slowing down or even stopping is usually an easy option.

--Tom.

 

[Warren Milberg]

Tom:
FWIW, the trawler that took the mast down on my friend's boat was not a commercial fisherman, but rather a recreational Krogan in the 42-ft range or so.... Certainly, my friend erred in not taking early and decisive evasive action even though he was not "burdened" to do so. You can bet he'll never make that mistake again.

 

[Anchor Down]

Be Amused

Jeff, you have my sympathies, but if I visualize your situation correctly, you're both on starboard tacks and he was slowly squeezing you toward land/shallows to windward? Then he should have included your situation in his thinking, and have borne off to relieve you. Damned inconsiderate to run up alongside someone like that when there's plenty of wet. It's almost as if he were trying to shoal you, but I think the truth is that he was simply ignorant/selfish.

Now that the "shoulds" have been said, I think the correct action to take would be for you to luff that main, slow down, and bear off across his stern early enough so that it's just a small maneuver, instead of waiting to see if he's going to be courteous. Gentlemen expect others to be gentlemen as well, but that expectation is often in error.

Don't let these guys raise your blood pressure. I don't know about you, but I'm out there for the opposite effect. I'm not going to let someone, through ignorance, arrogance, or stupidity, affect my attitude. I know, better said than done… lol

On the sidewalk, you simply step over dog mess and be on your way; you don't curse the fact that God made dogs. On the water, it's the same.

When you get to the point where you're yelling and shaking your fist at the idiots, you've stepped in it, and they win.

Fair Winds,
Jeff

 

[tsmwebb]

Tom:
FWIW, the trawler that took the mast down on my friend's boat was not a commercial fisherman, but rather a recreational Krogan in the 42-ft range or so....

That all sounds wretched. I hope I didn't sound judgmental -- I wasn't commententing on your friend's misfortune (except to sympathize) just on trawlers and crossing in general.

--Tom.

 

[sailormanbigd]

You all seam to miss the only reason for the close call. Please, nest time have your wife get dressed when an aproaching boat is spotted.

 

[Joe]

The lesson you can take from this experience is to always notify the other boat of your intentions..... early. Get the guy's attention and let him know you need room to turn (only one way to spell that). BTW, Racers are required by the rules to give the other boat room to manuever, especially with fixed obstacles.

Personnally, I would have questioned the other skipper's seamanship... heh, heh.

 

[higgs]

As I understand this, the other boat was to windward and thus obligated to give room. I think I would have called over to the guy and asked ask him to give me room. If he would not then I would have luffed up to let him pass. This guy was certainly not very courteous.

 

[biggio]

I wish there was a STUDENT SAILOR FLAG
I am more comfortable now in traffic but I'm still a newbie.
I went out of my way to motor away from other boats before putting my sails up but dam if there wasn't a few of boats always wanting to make a close approach. And I sail on such a big lake.
The first time I took my boat out there were the local yacht club kids out in their dinghy's exercising their right of way at the opening of the breakwater
over a dozen

 

[Stormsailor]

1st of all THANK-YOU all so much for your truth and honesty, I wasn't looking to be right I was looking to learn something new, and I did. there won't be a next time because when I see another boat doing that I will fill my wife in on the impending overtake. As "Petersea" said Being Pro-active is important. I guess I was frustrated because I wouldn't do that to someone on a leisure sail. If we were racing it would have been different.
I Can't thank all of you enough for your honest answers, it allows me to become more of a competent sailor and helps keep my judgment sharp in the future.
After all SAFETY is THE most important thing. Thanks Again, Jeff

 

[Stormsailor]

You all seam to miss the only reason for the close call. Please, nest time have your wife get dressed when an aproaching boat is spotted.

My wife says to smack you! LOL!!!!!!