What is a radio navigation system for mariners?

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Hermit Scott

Hermit Scott

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Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
"• Eliminating federal support for a $35 million-a-year radio-based marine navigation system rendered obsolete by the satellite-based Global Positioning System."

This is proposed to be cut from the budget. I don't think I have ever heard of it though. Is this the thing that identifies boats? Does this affect anyone on here?
 
Bad Obsession

Bad Obsession

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May 23, 2004
3,319
I'm in the market as were . Colonial Beach
Yep....They are always proposing to do away with Loran. I am surprised that it has lasted this long.
 
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Steve Dion

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Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Yes, Loran! Long overdue. They should have done this several years ago.
 
Bad Obsession

Bad Obsession

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May 23, 2004
3,319
I'm in the market as were . Colonial Beach
I know people who are still using loran as a backup system. They aren't made anymore and you usually have to get them off of ebay if you want one (so I've Heard). I will take GPS any day of the week over Loran.
 
Jim Seamans

Jim Seamans

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Mar 21, 2004
2,175
Hunter 356 Cobb Island, MD
Hey Bad ask Broke Sailor

how many times he has run aground with his GPS :laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
Marco Garcia

Marco Garcia

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Feb 10, 2007
213
Hunter Legend 40.5 Coconut Grove, FL
I read somewhere that Loran changed to digital and is very precise.... I know from a FAA source, in late 05 and early 06 two of the gps sat timers went bad, but they came back, and that is why they are sending new sats up... for reliability...... radio signals do not need clocks....If it is old technology, how come do we still use it to talk VHF and UHF....maybe they do not want us to have modern communications.???
 
Chuckbear

Chuckbear

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Jan 3, 2009
821
Marine Trader 34 Where Ever I am
Loran receivers are still being made and are available, they are now Loran/GPS combination hybrids. Chuck
 
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Steve Kamp

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May 7, 2004
252
Hunter 38 Little River, SC
Loran may still be in use by the aviation folks as a back-up along with TACAN. Rick Webb, what's the story there?
 
B

Brian M H23

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Oct 3, 2006
1,033
Hunter 29.5 Toms River
What does that 35 million a year pay for? People to maintain the equipment? Purchasing equipment from american electronics manufacturers?

It seems to me like these sort of programs are what the country needs to stimulate the economy. Cutting it just puts people out of work. I certainly don't mind my taxes contributing to maintainence and development of alterative navigation systems. Plus, real GPS consumers hundreds of millions of dollars every year. Why are they killing the cheap altenative but spending half a billion on the expensive system? I bet if LORAN was given a quarter of the budget GPS gets, it could become a very nice product, though it is already pretty good.

When you're trying to cut costs, you have to look at the things you spend lots of money on. When you're trillions of dollars in the hole, $35 mil is like me trying to pay off my credit card by deciding to save money by not waxing my boat.
 
rpwillia

rpwillia

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Sep 29, 2008
1,976
Catalina 310 #185 Quantico
Easy - Obama is saving us $17B right now ...

Of course he is not mentioning the $1T he has spent just this year.

$35M is for running a control center, maintenance, site lease, etc. I suspect Loran would not be missed too much. We would still have GPS, charts, compasses and even sextants if you want to go that old school.
 
Bad Obsession

Bad Obsession

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May 23, 2004
3,319
I'm in the market as were . Colonial Beach
Jim, I will admit that GPS is not fool proof. It works well to get you in the ballpark of where you are going. In the end a prudent sailor will also check his positioning on paper charts, survey the sights around him, and when heading for Nav Markers try to get actual sight of the markers.

I had my lesson about the accuracy of GPS when I was crossing Point Lookout in my old Hunter 22. The GPS said that I was heading right for the mark. I wasn't paying attention to my surroundings as well as I should and I ended up going between the mark and Point Lookout. The center board was pulled up and that never hit but I did trip the rudder. At the time I was going downwind in 15 knots of air so it was a wild ride and a nail biter but I made it through okay. After that I figured out that it is very important to watch where you are and not totally rely on electronics (duh).

Loran is probably just as good for getting you in the ballpark, and I know that having Loran coverage and GPS coverage is probably a smart system because both work and they would be different backups
 
Chuckbear

Chuckbear

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Jan 3, 2009
821
Marine Trader 34 Where Ever I am
Steve Kamp said:
Loran may still be in use by the aviation folks as a back-up along with TACAN. Rick Webb, what's the story there?
Click to expand
Loran is still widely used by primarily the marine industry and it is the lobbying by the marine industry that has kept the system functioning and keeps congress funding it, that is until now. You can find an excellent discussion here
http://tinyurl.com/qtr7v8
including the presidents plan to shut it down to save money. Chuck
 
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Benny

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Sep 27, 2008
1,149
Hunter 320 Tampa, FL
Neither GPS nor Loran was designed with the recreational boater in mind. Our wants and needs have no bearing on the future of either system.
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
I have loran on my boat and I know how to use it. most of the time it is very good but some of the time it is terrible. I don't trust it and when my antenna was broken last fall I chose not to replace it. If any one would like a loran receiver it is available really cheap. Just postage and handling.
 
Rick Webb

Rick Webb

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Jun 2, 2004
3,650
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
LORAN is more Repeatedly Accurate than GPS


That is to say if you want to sit above a structure to catch fish and be able to return to that same spot LORAN is the way to go. It is not difficult to learn but does take more time than does GPS. Most all of the charter fishing boats down here use LORAN. They buy permits to place reefs on the bottom to attract fish and want to return to their reef to catch those fish and LORAN does a better job than GPS for that.

Before the days of GPS we dropped bombs using it. A crude system was developed in WWII but we had a fairly accurate system in the late 60s and early 70s it was the only way we had at the time to drop through weather.

I always thought they would keep it around as a backup to GPS just in case someone started messing with our satellites those towers out in the woods in a half dozen spots in the US and a few more around the world would be easy to protect but maybe the space geeks have figured out they are not as vulnerable as we thought a few years back.

For the amount of money it costs to keep it operational in relation to our whole federal budget I think we should keep it. The Coast Guard has been trying to get rid of it for a while just because with their meager budget they could spend that money on other probably more useful things. So if it has to be funded through the Coast Guards budget and they get the money saved to update other systems I guess that makes sense.
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Re: LORAN is more Repeatedly Accurate than GPS

I have a Garmin 72 waas disabled because of a software glitch that causes it to freeze up. I often play with that in my car setting waypoints and following my bread crumbs trails. It always gets me into my driveway and to my other waypoints. When it is waas enabled it would tell me which side of the road I was on during my last trip.
 
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