Head feed by fresh water

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Blitz

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Jul 10, 2007
709
Seidelmann 34 Atlantic Highlands, NJ
I would like to hook my head intake directly to the fresh water supply. I know some will say this is a waste of water, others will say to just hook up the tee to the sink drain - but for some a fresh water hook up would be best since there is minimal usage of the head (thus creating odors from the sea water) so water would not be wasted at any great rate, there is enough fresh water on the boat for the demand, and that the location of the tee - due to configuations would be above the water line causing the tee set-up to suck air at times when using the sea water.

Is there a confident check valve that can be used in this application for fresh water feed to the head? I'm sure there is a host of cruisers all ready doing this - are you using just valves or check valves or both?
 
Peggie Hall HeadMistress

Peggie Hall HeadMistress

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Dec 2, 1997
8,954
- - LIttle Rock
BIG no no!

ONLY toilets that are designed by the mfr to use pressurized flush water should ever be connected to the fresh water system. No toilet that's designed to use sea water should ever be connected to the onboard potable water system, and every toilet mfr warns against it in their installation instructions because it cannot be done without risk of polluting the fresh water supply, damage to the toilet or both. You may argue that you don't drink the water...but you ingest a lot more of it than you think...you wash your hands, then pick up a sandwich...rinse out a cup, then fill it with "safe" bottled water...wash your face, brush your teeth...it's on your lips and in your eyes. And yes, there are people who've connected their intake to the fresh water supply anyway...and have gotten away with it...so far. Your boat, your health, your risk.

If you're determined to flush with fresh water all the time, there are only two safe ways to supply the water to a manual toilet (the third way--using the shower head all the time will damage the pump over time): the sink drain line or a separate water tank that is not connected to the fresh water suppy in any way The simplest way to install a separate water tank: buy an UNvented 5-6 gallon bladder..tee the fill into the sink drain with a y-valves, connect the head intake to the bladder. No other plumbing needed. To refill the bladder, turn the y-valve, run water down the sink into it.

Or, replace your toilet with an electric toilet designed to use pressurized flush water. You say the toilet isn't used much, so current draw wouldn't be an issue (they only draw 10 amps, so it's not much of an issue anyway)...combine safety with "push button convenience.
 
sailingdog

sailingdog

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Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
You should never hook a marine head up to the fresh water system directly, unless it is designed for flushing with pressurized fresh water... The reason for this is very simple... you don't want to risk contaminating your fresh water system with fecal matter from your head.

All of the fresh water flush alternatives I've seen thus far use the head sink as a reservoir and break between the fresh water system and the head, and you would probably be wise to do the same.


LOL... Look's like Peggie and I answered at the same time.:)
Blitz said:
I would like to hook my head intake directly to the fresh water supply. I know some will say this is a waste of water, others will say to just hook up the tee to the sink drain - but for some a fresh water hook up would be best since there is minimal usage of the head (thus creating odors from the sea water) so water would not be wasted at any great rate, there is enough fresh water on the boat for the demand, and that the location of the tee - due to configuations would be above the water line causing the tee set-up to suck air at times when using the sea water.

Is there a confident check valve that can be used in this application for fresh water feed to the head? I'm sure there is a host of cruisers all ready doing this - are you using just valves or check valves or both?
Click to expand
 
B

Blitz

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Jul 10, 2007
709
Seidelmann 34 Atlantic Highlands, NJ
Clean water or bust

I think I'm going to go with the seperate tank, since I already have the inlets due to a old tank that was near the bow and I could just gravity feed it to the toilet and with a few valves have it set. Do you recommend keeping the same diameter piping on a gravity feed system as the raw water inlet (believe it's 3/4")?

I would change the toilet but it was changed within the past two years (Raritan PHC)
so like to get a lot more service time out of it before retiring it.
 
sailingdog

sailingdog

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Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
Keep the Raritan PHC. They're quite reliable as heads go. Keep the water inlet the same. It is 3/4" BTW. :D
Blitz said:
I think I'm going to go with the seperate tank, since I already have the inlets due to a old tank that was near the bow and I could just gravity feed it to the toilet and with a few valves have it set. Do you recommend keeping the same diameter piping on a gravity feed system as the raw water inlet (believe it's 3/4")?

I would change the toilet but it was changed within the past two years (Raritan PHC)
so like to get a lot more service time out of it before retiring it.
Click to expand
 
Peggie Hall HeadMistress

Peggie Hall HeadMistress

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Dec 2, 1997
8,954
- - LIttle Rock
Raritan PHC and Your Proposed plumbng

What you really have is the "compact" version of the PHII, which has been rated the best toilet <$500 for the last couple of decades. It has a PHII pump, just mounted on a compact base and with a shorter pump handle to fit a tighter space. So the PH II owners manual is also the PHC manual. You can download and print it from here: Raritan PH II Keep it well lubricated, rebuild it every 5-6 years and you should get at least 20+ years of reliable trouble free service from it.

About your proposed toilet plumbing...you don't want to gravity feed the water to the toilet. 'cuz manual toilets are designed to PULL in flush water. When water is pushed into the the pump, it can mis-align seals, gaskets and o-rings. So you don't need a bunch of valves, just a supply of water that the toilet can pull from, same as it would pull sea water in through a thru-hull. The dry/flush valve is the only valve you need. And yes, the head intake line should remain the same 3/4".
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,056
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Blitz, a question

Will you have "access" to raw water once your forward freshwater "toilet-dedicated" tank runs out?
 
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