Problems with Raymarine X-5 Autopilot

[Levin]

Hello everyone...

So I was one of the first to take the plunge and buy the Raymarine X-5 wheel autopilot and decided to try to install it myself (I own a 2000 model year Hunter 340). It seems that the instillation went well but when I took it out yesterday and tried to the autopilot for the first time with the sails up I got an error message that wasn't covered by instillation guide or owner's manual. Basically it was 15-17 knots of wind and we were close hulled and it appeared the wheel pilot was having a hard time turning over the helm to stay on course. It struggled for a bit and then showed the error message "MOT STALL". I looked through all the books and it does not say what this means. Anyone have any experience with this?

I think that this means one of three things:

1) The autopilot isn't powerful enough to turn over my helm and I have to go to a below decks version (which is strange because the old 4000+ model with the black wheel ring could turn over the helm)

2) The wheel pilot is somehow damaged and needs replacing

3) There is a problem in my connections somewhere

Again any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any advice you can give

Take care,
-Levin

 

[Stu Jackson]

Bummer, Levin, given your backgorund with APs!

Have you called and/or emailed Raymarine? There aren't too many folks with those new units installed yet. Think of yourself as a pathfinder....

Often complete restarts with computer stuff works, Did you?

 

[Tom S]

Somethings gotta be wrong. At 15-17 knts closed hauled your boat should almost be able to balance out and sail itself. Unless you were ridiculously over-trimmed the autopilot should not have to work that hard. Now if you told me you were running with the wind and down big seas then maybe that might have caused erractic autopilot behavior.

I would call Raymarine

 

[sailingdog]

Sounds like the error message is saying the motor is stalled... meaning that it isn't turning the wheel when it is supposed to be... are you sure you got the drive unit bracket pin aligned and positioned properly, and the drive unit mounted properly??

If the drive unit isn't mounted centered on the wheel, I'd imagine you'd have some issues. If the bracket pin isn't aligned and at the right distance, you'll also have some issues.

 

[Koichi]

reduce weather helm

I use the S-1 and get a similar message in conditions as you described. The S-1 manual attributes this to weather helm being too high, problem with the rudder sensor, or problem with the motor itself. Well, since the sensor and motor performs except on close haul, I concluded weather helm as the problem.
Solution: trim sails to reduce weather helm. Your wheel pilot will not allow you to sail with as large amount of heel as is possible if you were at the wheel.

 

[Stu Jackson]

15-17 knots

Is just about the time to reef and reduce weather helm, plus sail trim is as mentioned very important. However, my old ST3000 doesn't have these little problems. Wish they still made it. CPT here I come!

 

[Levin]

Weather Helm

Hello again...

Yes the motor does work as expected when under engine power with the sails down... but even the slightest amount of weather helm causes this problem. I was heeling quite a bit when this problem showed up but even with the wind at 90 degrees to port and much less helm it still couldn't handle it. That seems like a pretty weak system if you ask me. Like I said the old 4000+ with the black ring (as opposed to the newer grey one I now have installed) could turn over the helm in these conditions. The problem with the old 4000 is that it was far too slow to react to wind changes and also the old black ring eventually broke.

I wonder if this has to do with the 340's oversized rudder. It does have a rather large rudder for a boat of it's size. Again any ideas would be helpful.

Thanks
-Levin

 

[BobD17833]

Re: Weather Helm

Levin

Could be there is insufficient current to the X-5 and/or the drive.
What gauge (AWG) wire was used to supply the power from the X-5 to the drive and what is that distance?
What gauge wire was used to supply the power to the X-5? at what distance?

With a 34' boat I'd expect the distance X5 to drive to be in the 14-22' range (round trip) you would be using a 12 AWG minimum.

Bob D
Boston

 

[Levin]

Wire runs

Hello again...

I actually started thinking about the wire runs shortly after I posted the message and that could be a problem I suppose. I mounted the X-5 course computer inside the boat (in a closet) and ran all the wires from there out to the pedestal. The wire runs they gave me in the box weren't long enough to do this so I used what I had and then spliced in the middle to a larger wire and ran the rest of the way to the computer. I suppose the connection could be bad in the splice (although I'm pretty sure I did it well including using shrink tubing and all) and the wires are thicker after the splice than what Raymarine has in their box... but I guess it could still be too long a run. Or perhaps it has nothing to do with this? There didn't seem to be a good place to mount the course computer closer to the pedestal without putting it outside which didn't seem right. The power runs to the course computer were pretty short (6 feet max) and I think 12 AWG... so I don't think that's the problem... but again who knows.

Again any thoughts are always helpful.

Thanks,
-Levin

 

[mithril]

problems with raymarine auto pilot

Hi Levin
we have a similar problem of random MOT stall happening on our brand new raymarine spx-sol, system. It is connected to an hydraulic steering system so is abit different to your set up, but we have not been able to determine the cause of the problem after several calls and visits from raymarine and hydraulic engineers. We have tried everything suggested and are currently marooned in Porto, Portugal, having sent our pumpset back to manufacturers (kobelt) for testing. they can find nothing wrong with the pump.
Did you find out what your problem was? Can anyone shed any light on our problem or has anyone else had a similar problem with the SPX-SOL.

 

[RAD]

Hmm.....I'm starting to think I made the correct choice by buying the older model because I couldn't wait.
Stupid question.....but because it dose not have a rudder sensor does the computer need time to learn the boat? this maybe part of the problem

 

[rpwillia]

Could be the wire gauge.

The wire runs they gave me in the box weren't long enough to do this so I used what I had and then spliced in the middle to a larger wire and ran the rest of the way to the computer ... and the wires are thicker after the splice than what Raymarine has in their box... but I guess it could still be too long a run.

Before going too crazy, I would think about replacing the wires the entire way with a heavier gauge. The supplied Raymarine wires are a certain gauge and sized for that long of a run. Extending the run, even with thicker wire on part still leaves you with a choke point in the original Raymarine wire.

 

[Dan Johnson]

I have the S-1 version...

the X-5 is basically the same thing but without the rudder sensor. It does have an integral rate gyro for the "autolearn" function.

I have had to tweak the rudder sensitivity and response functions in the software to get the unit to respond like my old 4000 did. It has taken several trips out to get these settings satisfactory. One thing I suspect is that one of these settings isn't correct and the computer can't power the helm over enough to bring the boat on course, causing the stall.

From your post it sounds like your first trip out was in high teens wind, which isn't the same thing as a calm day that makes for the system's easy learning curve. It is also a day with wind strength that is about the first reefing level, which sounds like you hadn't done. In MHO, you should wait for a calm day and do sea trials under power first to be sure that the system is working as intended.

As pointed out, the long wire runs don't help. One critical element is the computer's logic grounding (the yellow wire coming off the right side of the motherboard) to the boat's ground (or battery negative in lieu of that)--was that done with heavy enough wire? A long wire run of thinner wire could be a contributing factor as well.

I would think of relocating the computer module to somewhere in the aft cabin to shorten the wire runs and put the gyro sensor in a less active area of the boat.

Last thought: where was the fluxgate compass located? Is it low enough that it is not affected by boat heel? The installation drawing in the S-1's manual seems to suggest somewhere in the middle half of the boat at the waterline.

 

[Levin]

Things did work out... well kinda...

Hello all...

First off... In answer to the question about the "MOT STAL" alarm that I was getting. Yes, I did figure that out and yes it was related to the wire gauge I was using. I went up (well technically down since down in numbers is = thicker wires) in size and ever since I have stopped having the problem. If you are having a similar problem then I would encourage you to go up to the thickest wire you can fit into the X5 computer output (I think I managed to get a 10 in there but check for yourself). This should correct the problem.

But now the "kinda" part of my comments.

Recently I have started having a problem where the X-5 system blows the 2 amp (grey) fuse in the computer when underway. Not sure where this is coming from and it only started a few weeks ago (worked flawlessly for many months and I haven't added anything new the boat recently). Anyone else having this problem? This one has me baffled to be honest.

Seems I never can avoid autopilot issues... :bang:

Take care,
-Levin