Manson Supreme - first anchoring

Scott B · Apr 8, 2009

Jim, 70 ft. in 10 ft. of water is less than 7:1

Our Rocna does the same thing, typically have to either let the momentum break it out or some forward throttle..... and no.1 on my install list last year was a washdown pump.... and you'll soon see why.

DannyS · Apr 8, 2009

Great to hear your positive experience. I just bought a 35# Manson and I can't wait to try it out. Anchoring in our normal cruising ground is 95% sand with occasional rock and rock/sand combo. No mud. However, trips to the North Shore of Lake Superior is mostly rock so I thought it would be good to have a couple of styles of anchor in the arsenal. Our Fortress will become the backup and our Danforth backup will become the backup to the backup.

sailingdog · Apr 8, 2009

Fun part was retrieveing the anchor, slowly went forward as the windlass hauled in the line. Finally got up over the anchor and the windlass said "No this thing is STUCK". Had Joan continue in forward at idle and you could feel the anchor let go. Then I started the windlass again. When the anchor broked the surface of the water, I let out a scream. You would not believe the mud ball on that anchor. It was huge. Told Joan to come forward and look at it. Wish I had my camera it was a hoot. We let the anchor back down in the water and backed up for a few turns and to clean the mud off. We are still laughing....

That was one of the biggest complaints my crew has with the Rocna.

I added a manual windlass to help deal with the hauling up of 30 lbs. of mud/sand/weed on the anchor. We usually let it hang off the bow, about four feet down while we sail off, so the mud washes away.

I've also very nearly dumped crew overboard at the bow backing down on my Rocna. I back down on the anchor fairly hard and it usually grabs so quickly that the boat jerks to a sudden stop. A couple of summers ago, when I had a new crew member working the bow, he had been warned about the stop, but didn't believe me or his friend, who is one of my regular crew, that it would be so sudden...and ended up hanging over the bow rail with one hand on the bow of the starboard ama and one on the bow of the main hull. If he hadn't been six feet tall, he would have been swimming instead...

Our Fortress will become the backup and our Danforth backup will become the backup to the backup.

The Danforth or Fortress would make a great stern anchor. You might consider keeping it and the rode for it in the cockpit. Of the two, the Danforth would be better, as it is heavier for the size.

Ross · Apr 8, 2009

When I set my anchor I lower it until it is on the bottom and Nancy backs the boat as I pay out rode when I have about 7:1 scope I cleat the rode and the anchor sets and the rode stretches like a bungee. Throttling back and shifting into neutral will let the stretch recover and pull the boat forward a considerable distance.

Stu Jackson · Apr 8, 2009

Geez, people complaining about an anchor that ACTUALLY WORKS!!!

C'mon, get real. The Rocnas and Manson Supremes hold.

HOLD, HOLD, HOLD.

Anyone wanna give me any ideas about why that's BAD???

If you don't have a washdown system, do what's been suggested: simple, motor slowly around with the anchor still in the water and clean it off.

When we first used our Rocna I almost got pulled off the bow when it hit and I'd been using a succession of Danforths, and then a good, real, Bruce for over 25 years. All that meant is that I bought the right anchor, one that holds.

Please read MS's article about this great feature of V3.0 anchors. You might spend more time finding that article on the web than you would buying a new anchor and finding out how great they work.

Seems simple: anchor $300 to $900.

Boat: Priceless!

And maybe save some time to do a search here on "anchors" and "anchoring" for some very illuminating discussions held earlier by these very contributing folks.

sailingdog · Apr 8, 2009

Stu—

I use the word complaint loosely.

One person who crewed with me asked me about how hauling up the Ronca was more difficult and took more time than the Claw he uses on his boat. I said, "Isn't an anchor supposed to be difficult to break free???" and then I pointed out, the amount of time I save by having the anchor set properly on the first try every time I've used it more than made up for the slight increase in time it takes to retrieve it. How many times have you used a CQR or a Claw and had to retrieve it and try setting it a second, third or even fourth time??? He thought about that and said, "I've got to get a new anchor." Two weeks later, I saw his boat was sporting a Manson Supreme on the bow roller.

I'd also point out that a decent anchor and rode for most boats under 40' is going to cost less than $1000. A Rocna 15 (33 lbs.) is $500 or so at WM. A rode with 270' of 5/8 octo-plait nylon and 30' of 5/16" G4 High-test chain is about $350. A load-test anchor shackle is $8. A pivoting bow roller is $120, and a good chain stopper is about $60. With a manual windlass, it is still under $2000 if you shop around.

Stu Jackson · Apr 8, 2009

Yup, it's great to pull the foredeck crew off the bow!

Maine Sail posted a great anchoring article awhile ago. Once we teach the respondents here to search, maybe they'll get the message. I doubt it from other boards, but, oh well... [Please ignore my pleadings, been going on for over ten years...]

Anyway, folks, try reading this, it's four pages. Much of it was right here, first, too. http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2705.0.html

Sometimes newer is just a fad, sometimes it's downright better! :naughty:

Benny · Apr 8, 2009

Part of anchoring is being able to retrieve the anchor. I fail to see the efficiency of an anchor solely on its ability to scoop up dirt. I may be old fashion but I consider that an anchor should release when the angle of pull is directly overhead and should come out fairly clean. I understand mud is sticky but it should stick more to itself than to polished metal; cannot fanthom why a huge ball of mud would not fall in the water or slide off a properly designed anchor. I have a storm anchor, but I only use it for storms; I'm afraid an anchor with that holding power would not get much use in my boat. Yes, I do not make provisions for that 100 year ocurrence, I live in the present.

sailingdog · Apr 9, 2009

Benny—

If you have ever looked at a next gen anchor like the Rocna or Manson Supreme, you'd see that the blade or fluke is shaped like a garden spade... concave rather than convex, and there's no way for the mud to just slide off of it without assistance, just like it wouldn't "slide out" of a bucket. This is one reason next gen anchors develop so much holding power. In the Sail Magazine anchor tests of a few years back, the Rocna 15 was able to generate over 4500 lbs. of holding force without slipping or pulling out.

IMHO, having a specific storm anchor is not a good practice. Storms don't always give good warning, and often, if you're relying on the chance to deploy a storm anchor, you'll have to do so in fairly nasty conditions. Your primary anchor should be capable of weathering a storm IMHO.

Benny said:
Part of anchoring is being able to retrieve the anchor. I fail to see the efficiency of an anchor solely on its ability to scoop up dirt. I may be old fashion but I consider that an anchor should release when the angle of pull is directly overhead and should come out fairly clean. I understand mud is sticky but it should stick more to itself than to polished metal; cannot fanthom why a huge ball of mud would not fall in the water or slide off a properly designed anchor. I have a storm anchor, but I only use it for storms; I'm afraid an anchor with that holding power would not get much use in my boat. Yes, I do not make provisions for that 100 year ocurrence, I live in the present.

BobM · Apr 9, 2009

FYI there is someone selling Manson Supreme's at an unbelievable price on ebay right now. Anyone interested in one should take a look. I haven't bought one though and have no idea how legit it is.

Scott B · Apr 9, 2009

Benny said:
Part of anchoring is being able to retrieve the anchor. I fail to see the efficiency of an anchor solely on its ability to scoop up dirt. I may be old fashion but I consider that an anchor should release when the angle of pull is directly overhead and should come out fairly clean. I understand mud is sticky but it should stick more to itself than to polished metal; cannot fanthom why a huge ball of mud would not fall in the water or slide off a properly designed anchor. I have a storm anchor, but I only use it for storms; I'm afraid an anchor with that holding power would not get much use in my boat. Yes, I do not make provisions for that 100 year ocurrence, I live in the present.

Last summer was full of violent thunderstiorms. We were anchored and were hit with sustained 30-35 knot winds and didn't budge. We were run over by another with sustained 40 knots and gusts to 52 knots after casually dropping the anchor, short 4:1 scope, not set, to wait out some rain, when the high winds hit, lasted a good hour and didn't move at all, luckily due to the rocks directly behind us. Next morning it took a considerable amount of throttle to break out the anchor and I was smiling all the time knowing this anchor had saved out butts.

1 in a 100 year storm? maybe not, but why wait to find out.

Tim R. · Apr 9, 2009

BobM said:
FYI there is someone selling Manson Supreme's at an unbelievable price on ebay right now. Anyone interested in one should take a look. I haven't bought one though and have no idea how legit it is.

We will soon find out. I bought one from them yesterday. Shipping was $48 to Maine but total price is still good. They appear to be a legit marine business. The anchor prices are pretty good on their website but better on ebay.

http://www.newjsi.com/

Steve_Catalina · Apr 9, 2009

I purchased a 35# Manson from JSI two months ago, they also listed on eBay and at that time the price was the same. It arrived within a week.

I found JSI had the best "total" price at the time.

Steve

Cpt. Jon · Apr 9, 2009

Thanks for the heads up on that ebay listing, I ordered one as I need an anchor for the new boat. Was planning on a rocna, but at that price I'll go with the Manson supreme and if I feel in the future I need a rocna still I am not out that much.

Stu Jackson · Apr 9, 2009

So help me understand why anyone would NOT

want a better anchor?!?

Benny, what you may NOT have appreciated is that the weight to strength ratio has been drastically improved. Better on ya back, mon!

Franklin · Apr 9, 2009

Benny said:
Part of anchoring is being able to retrieve the anchor. I fail to see the efficiency of an anchor solely on its ability to scoop up dirt. I may be old fashion but I consider that an anchor should release when the angle of pull is directly overhead and should come out fairly clean. I understand mud is sticky but it should stick more to itself than to polished metal; cannot fanthom why a huge ball of mud would not fall in the water or slide off a properly designed anchor. I have a storm anchor, but I only use it for storms; I'm afraid an anchor with that holding power would not get much use in my boat. Yes, I do not make provisions for that 100 year ocurrence, I live in the present.

Benny:

Let me tell you a story. I bought a Bulwagga a few years ago for a 50' boat (mine bing 37'). Because of it's design, one could see it would easily reset itself on a wind shift, but I was a little worried about it's holding power. The first chance I got, I took it to the local anchoring place (Redfish) where the bottom is 2' of very soft mud and then hard mud. I dropped it over and backed down on it at 2500 RPMs for about 3 minutes. I watched the GPS to see if I was dragging and I wasn't. The wind piped up to 25 knots that night and I didn't move at all. The next morning I thought it was going to be very difficult to retrieve as my danforth would have been in those conditions. It came up too easy...as if I had just dropped it over 5 min earlier. I was worried about that but for the next 20+ anchoring, sometimes with multiple boats on it, it never moved on me.

Cut to a month ago when I was on shore and we had an unforecasted storm blow in with a lot of fetch and guess what, the anchor couldn't handle the 5' waves and my boat was totalled. I've spent many nights since wondering what had happened and am sure it's because of the design that makes it too easy to come up with upward pressure, which usually is only when we are trying to retrieve it, but turns out waves do the same thing.

So be careful want you wish for

Once I'm finished fixing my boat, I'll be thinking about getting a Spade as a secondary anchor for when I leave the boat. Sorry fellas but I think the Spade has a better design then the Manson supreme or Rocna.

txtowman · Apr 9, 2009

bulwagga

anyone tried a bulwagga?

sailingdog · Apr 9, 2009

Franklin—

The real world testing doesn't agree, and either did any of the recent anchor tests AFAIK. You could also watch Maine Sail's videos on anchor setting, where he tests the Manson Supreme and the Spade.

Franklin said:
Once I'm finished fixing my boat, I'll be thinking about getting a Spade as a secondary anchor for when I leave the boat. Sorry fellas but I think the Spade has a better design then the Manson supreme or Rocna.