Anchor chain

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Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
My B323 is almost 13000 pounds on the travel lift. I use the 5/16 HT, but I got a free a "heavier-than-I-"need" 35 CQR. CQR says a 25 would do, but with a windlass, I went heavier on anchor and chain to brace for the nasty summer thunderstorms we can get here on the Chesapeake Bay.

Looking in the West catalog, the "weaker" 1/4 chain is 1250 working load, the 5/16 is 1900, the 1/4 HT is 2600. The 1/4 HT is $3.41 at foot, the weaker 5/16 is $3.89. The 1/4 HT is .2 pounds lighter then the weak 5/16. So, money and strength considered, strong is better, lighter and cheaper. The additional security of the HT come in to play when the weather conditions EXCEED what the sizing charts go by.
 
Jan 10, 2009
590
PDQ 32 Deale, MD
Get a Windlass - Your Back Will Thank You

Dog,

I sail the same waters as you. My boat weighs close to 11,000 lbs. I have a 25# Mason Supreme with 20' of 5/16 chain and 250' of nylon. I am moving the chain and nylon to a secondary 18lb Danforth and buying a new rode for the Mason Supreme. The weight of 60' of 5/16" G4 is 72 lbs where the weight of 90' of 1/4" G4 is 69 lbs. The difference in price is negligible. With everything equal is there an advantage to having a longer weaker chain (90') or stronger but shorter (60'). As Stu said It's my decision to make.

Thanks everyone!
Please, take a moment and add up the pounds. In 20 feet of water you are lifting 20 pounds for 70 feet followed by 45 pounds for 20 feet, plus whatever pull it takes to get the boat to the anchor. Yes, you should motor to the anchor, but a windlass really helps, particularly when single-handing (your up, they're in bed). Then there is the matter of breaking out the anchor. For about $750 plus installation (not too difficult in these smaller sizes) you can have a slave bring in 80 fpm of 1/4 HT chain.

When I had a 12 pound anchor and 6' of chain and the boat wieghed 1300 pounds, I hauled rope. Now I have about what you have and I wouldn't consider going back. My secondary anchor is a Fortress and has little chain so I can haul it. One back injury from breaking out the anchor... that is all it will take.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
I'm curious as to why you use so much chain. Most recommendations I've seem call for six inches of chain for every foot of boat length. Besides I hate to carry all that weight in the bow.
The secret to successful anchoring is in the chain. My ancient CQR sets and holds as well as it does because the heavy chain helps to keep the pull on the anchor parallel to the bottom.
Consider the anchor rode as a vector that is the result of two forces. Force 1 is the horizontal pull annd force 2 is the vertical pull. The angle of the rode at the anchor is the important factor. If the rode were all rope and the scope were set at 7:1 in 10 feet of water and 4 feet from the bow of the boat to the water. Then you would have 7x14 feet of rode deployed, 98 feet. This rode pulled taut is at an angle equal to the side of a triangle 14 feet on one side and 97 feet on the third side. tha angle of the rode to the bottom will be about 8 degrees. if you have a pull of 100 pounds on the rode the horizontal component of that pull will be about 97 pounds and the vertical pull will be 13 pounds. It follows therefore that a 500 pound pull on the rode could lift a 30 pound anchor off the bottom. But anchors dig in and the weight of the mud, sand, gravel etc. will add to the resistance of the anchor breaking out. Adding chain(heavy chain) to the rode tends to change the angle of pull to a more horizontal pull as a result of the catenary. The chain aids in setting the anchor and the deeper it can initially set the more resistant it will be to breaking out.
If because of the chain the pull at the anchor is 5 degrees then the vertical force is 8 pounds. The use of a kellet helps to serve the same purpose.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
After reading the rest of this thread I have come to the conclusion that I am stronger than many of you. I regularly ship my anchor and chain in twenty feet of water. I never try to break the anchor out by brute strength. I pull up to a short scope and break it out with the engine. I can still haul 30 feet of 3/8 chain and a 35 pound anchor out and stow it on the roller.
 
May 5, 2006
1,140
Knutson K-35 Yawl Bellingham
Ross, just be glad ya didn't drop a 35 Lb CQR and 100' of 5/16 chain into a 130' hole like I did. Oh yeah, did I mention the absence of a windlass? The charts were wrong and the depth meter on the fritz so the only way we knew is when the chain kept running. Talk about a workout. Me and my youngest daughter on the foredeck playing heave ho with all of that chain and anchor hanging straight down off the bow. All the while drifting around the island with the current....
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,137
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
To each his own, other than minimum chain length

of at least the boat.

When I first deployed my new Rocna, I used 3/8 chain that I had on board from an old anchoring setup left by the PO.

Given my designed anchoring SYSTEM discussed above, it was just TOO much weight for me to lift and WAY too much for the conditions I normally anchor in (remember, it was DESIGNED for a max. of 42 knot winds).

Now, many of you MUST use heavier anchors and rode systems because you can get hit with midnight squalls that exceed anything I've seen here in 25 years of sailing (other than days and nights I would NOT be out there).

If your personal physical conditions require or suggest a windlass, get one and use it, regardless of what other people say.

At the risk of repeating myself (like, I hardly ever do that, right?:)) design the anchoring SYSTEM for your expectations, your boat and your conditions. If I move somewhere else, I'll have to reevaluate. And don't take the "neighbors down the dock only use half the boat length chain argument" either. Do some homework with recognized texts on the subject, and you can start with the WM Advisors, right here online: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...dvisor/10001/-1/10001/AnchoringTechniques.htm.

They've written entire BOOKS about the subject, for goodness sake.:eek:

Remember, your boat's a WHOLE lot more expensive than an anchor, rode and a windlass.:doh:
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Re: To each his own, other than minimum chain length

Just in case of a weak back or a deep hole I have a two speed sheet winch that will handle the rope and a grab hook on twenty feet of 3/8 inch laid line. I can haul on rope until I have chain on board and the use the grab hook and the mast winch for the rest of the job.
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
Well said Stu. I am always a bit shocked to see what some people consider acceptable for an anchor and anchor rode.

For a 30-35' sailboat, a 33 lb. Rocna or 35 lb. Manson Supreme is not oversized. 30' of 5/16" G43 chain and 200' of 5/8" octoplait nylon is not oversized or excessive either. The anchor and the rode, along with a decent shackle to connect the two would cost under $1000.

Manson Supreme 35 lb........................... $350
Load rated 3/8" anchor shackle ...............$ 10
200' 5/8 Octoplait w/ 30' G4 5/16" chain . $280
=============================
Total ..................................................$640


Remember, your boat's a WHOLE lot more expensive than an anchor, rode and a windlass.:doh:
 
May 5, 2006
1,140
Knutson K-35 Yawl Bellingham
Ross, just be glad ya didn't drop a 35 Lb CQR and 100' of 5/16 chain into a 130' hole like I did. Oh yeah, did I mention the absence of a windlass? The charts were wrong and the depth meter on the fritz so the only way we knew is when the chain kept running. Talk about a workout. Me and my youngest daughter on the foredeck playing heave ho with all of that chain and anchor hanging straight down off the bow. All the while drifting around the island with the current....

Oh, sorry, that was 3/8's chain, not 5/16's. I don't have any 5/16's on the active rode but I do have 200' of it on the secondary rode.
 
Jan 10, 2009
590
PDQ 32 Deale, MD
Curious - how do you secure the chain to break it out with the engine?

After reading the rest of this thread I have come to the conclusion that I am stronger than many of you. I regularly ship my anchor and chain in twenty feet of water. I never try to break the anchor out by brute strength. I pull up to a short scope and break it out with the engine. I can still haul 30 feet of 3/8 chain and a 35 pound anchor out and stow it on the roller.
I assume you do not mean "cleat it off", as the would be chain on a cleat. A chain lock of some sort? A chain hook?

I have a chain lock in front of the windlass, but I wondered what others do. I've only had one get stubborn once, and the way it was hung-up on a buried tractor tire required a swim.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
I assume you do not mean "cleat it off", as the would be chain on a cleat. A chain lock of some sort? A chain hook?

I have a chain lock in front of the windlass, but I wondered what others do. I've only had one get stubborn once, and the way it was hung-up on a buried tractor tire required a swim.
I have a six inch mooring bit and just take a turn on that. I also have a chain lock but the mooring bit is stronger. If we are so deep that the chain hasn't come on board then I have either a large strong cleat or the mooring bit for the rope.
 
Feb 1, 2007
75
Auckland NZ
Just a few quick notes and links to address a few of the comments in this thread.

There is old and now abused tradition which speaks to heavy chain and how this benefits an anchor. When your ship was a 500 ton tall ship and the anchor was a 500 kg admiralty pick, this lore worked well. For various reasons, it is no longer anything like a given, and particularly for small boats and particularly for modern anchors it departs well from reality.

For similar reasons, kellets/sentinels are more or less useless for the purposes of increasing anchor performance.

Generally speaking, it is a far better option to use lighter and stronger chain, and place any saved weight back into the anchor if the 'weight budget' allows. This permits a far superior system in terms of performance, and also one which is more versatile to different anchoring environments and conditions.

There are some articles on the Rocna knowledge base which discuss these topics in detail. Particularly:

http://www.rocna.com/kb/Rode_optimizations
http://www.rocna.com/kb/Scope_vs_catenary

http://www.rocna.com/kb/Chain
http://www.rocna.com/kb/Kellets_and_buoys

Sorry for all the links, but there's way too much to reproduce here.

A lot of myth and misconception out there on this one! - but the facts are not so difficult to discover, with a bit of testing, a bit of theory, and a bit of patience!
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
For similar reasons, kellets/sentinels are more or less useless for the purposes of increasing anchor performance.
Darn! I have this beautiful Kellet in my bilge.



Are you telling me I should remove the cradle and leave it ashore? The practical uses for it you cite don't justify the weight and space.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Geeze, Roger... it looks like one of those bombs they had on submarines to scuttle the ship if captured.
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
Geeze, Roger... it looks like one of those bombs they had on submarines to scuttle the ship if captured.
It is actually a piece of medical radioactive shielding. I was assured by my former father in law, a former nuclear health and safety officer, that it presented no hazard. However, if it doesn't serve any significant safety purpose, not having to explain it to a coast guard or customs boarding party would be convienient.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
I have no doubt that the Rocna anchor sets and holds well at short scope. I suggest that it holds better with a long scope and a low angle of pull. I wonder if they have compared the set and holding of a 10 kg Rocna on an 8:1 scope with a 15 kg Rocna on a 3:1 scope.
 
Jan 10, 2009
590
PDQ 32 Deale, MD
It would work well to, say, relocate the wife...

Darn! I have this beautiful Kellet in my bilge.



Are you telling me I should remove the cradle and leave it ashore? The practical uses for it you cite don't justify the weight and space.
Dirty deeds in your future?
 
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